American Dream

[Wes]

Remove the first, and maybe lower the second and third a little bit. Then you can just clip the "first" bolt and not have to worry about the S.C.E.C. voiding your send. Seriously, if you are getting on that route and the 5.1 climbing to the ledge, even with stick clip in one hand, freaks you out, you need to reconsider your chosen pastime.

This past weekend at the darkside there were some people complaining that there wasnt a bolt lower than the first bolt. People were suggesting putting one in. What is everyone's opinion on this. Should people just suck it up and stop complaining or should there be another bolt.

[512OW]

what is wierd about this OW? Here is the answer, whether it is trad or sport.....ask the FA for permission when any permanent change is being made to an established route.

I agree. It just seems strange to "force" a sport route to be scary if there is a better option. I know nothing about this route, so I'm just being general.

btw, this whole "pucker factor" cause I climb trad game is retarded. you will only pucker on trad when you suck at gear placement..

Not true. There are plenty of trad routes with mandatory runouts that are determined by the rock, not by the first ascentionist or equipper. My point was just that the hardcore sporties are always screaming about it being more "pure" movement, with less to worry about. Why then would a new "worry" be purposely added? Just seems silly, thats all.

That said, I think it'd be retarded to put a lower first bolt, especially if you're stick clipping the first two anyway...





btw, I only own 15 draws, and no trad gear.[/quote]

[Buster]

I think if you want to force "pucker-factor", maybe you should just go trad climbing...

All these sport climbing rules are retarded.

Check prevailing weather conditions in hell. I agree with 512OW!

[512OW]

Holy crap. The end is near...

[pigsteak]

does the FA have any say in movement of bolts? I think that the bolts were originally placed arbitrarilly by the FA...if later climbing consensus decides that a bolt should be moved, then it should be moved. (even if the FA disagrees.)

I know I'll catch crap for that, but bolting routes to start is not rocket science, and bolters make mistakes they sometimes don't fix....maybe later climbers should have that latitude.

that being said, certain sport routes have developed a consensus to be left "spicy" to keep its aura intact...wouldn't you agree, OW, that this manufactured spiciness is retarded and should be removed immediately?

[SCIN]

I didn't stick clip the 2nd bolt on American Dream and really can't remember anything being an issue. That doesn't, however, mean I would run around telling everyone else that it's not cool to stick clip it and the bolt is fine the way it is. That's elite and ghey.

What if it was a line with an ankle breaker V9 at the second? Sean McColl would probably flash it clipping the bolt but all of the "not freakishly strong" climbers would stick clip it and feel okay with that. How elitist would it be if Sean McColl came up and told you to sack it up and clip it?

[Toy]

Frankly, I don't mind hard clips, but isn't sport climbing supposed to be about the moves? Thats what all the hardcore boltclippers are always preaching...

I think if you want to force "pucker-factor", maybe you should just go trad climbing...

All these sport climbing rules are retarded.

It must be very inconvenient to stand up every time you need to speak. Quit talkin out yer bunghole and think before responding dude. The route is fine as is. Period. The clip isn't even that hard if your not in over you head. If it is too hard to clip, there's prolly another route out there to suit you. Nothing "forced". In fact, what I suggested is just the opposite.

[SCIN]

You didn't see ML stick clip the 5th bolt on 50 words for Pump because he couldn't make the 4th clip did ya? He made a commitment and pulled hard.

Speaking of this, Mike Doyle is (or has already) apparently rebolting 50 Words to deal with the 4th bolt issue. I hear he has placed two bolts at the same level to accommodate those who are going out right and those who are going out left for the crux. I also hear he is rebolting MILF Money to follow the flow.

[Pete]

I take offense for Chris on the arbitrary bolt placement... he's pretty damn thoughtful about these things. Have you been on his other routes? Some of the best around, with some of the spiciest run outs... classic chris martin style.

[pigsteak]

pete, don't make it personal. I was not speaking to a specific route, esp not one of Chris Martin's lines. I have never been on American Dream, so I can't comment on that particular line.

[Meadows]

Um, you're speaking in a thread about a specific route.

[pigsteak]

fair enough meadows....lol..I'm done here then..I'll sit and listen to those who have sent American Dream.

[jefflehmkuhl]

dude, if you can't get to the first bolt, then you don't need to be on the route.

[chriss]

dude, if you can't get to the first bolt, then you don't need to be on the route.

I don't think many people have issues getting to the first bolt of the route. They stick clip it for saftey. If a hold broke or a foot slipped going to the first bolt of American dream and you fell without being stick clipped you would be lucky to walk back to your car.

Anyhow, leave the route as is. I have been on it, and stick clipped the second. It was very easy to climb up to the ledge with a stickclip. As someone else said, if you don't want to stick clip, clip the first bolt on the route to the left before going to the first of AD.

[goodguy]

Just 2 cents.... Rock climbing should not be contrived. When equipping a route if a bolt is placed to low or high, causing the route to be harder (spicy), the route is completely changed and totally contrived. Runouts in sport climbing for any other reason than there is no clipping hold or stance, are crap. If someone wants a spicy route and wants to make people pucker, start setting at a gym and put bad clipping holds at every bolt, don't risk someone else getting hurt for no reason.

This was not in any way directed at anyone, just mpo.