COVID-19 Climbing Guidelines: The Red River Gorge in the Daniel Boone National Forest, Muir Valley, and all RRGCC-owned property - which includes Miller Fork Recreational Preserve, Bald Rock Recreational Preserve, and Pendergrass-Murray Recreational Preserve - request that you follow the guidelines outlined on each website if you choose to climb during this time. See links above for more details about each climbing area.

Ultra-perm

This route is located in the Southern Region at Bob Marley Crag

Horn


19.
+1
1 votes

Skinny Love 5.12d (Sport) ***

First Ascent: Andrew Wheatley in 2011
Length: 90ft
Bolts: 10 (report bad bolts/anchors)

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Starts 30 feet right of Ultra Perm. Overhanging jug swimming leads to a rest. Rest up then take on a short section of poor crimps and pinches leading to the anchors.
Moves: unknown
Descent: Chains
Stays Dry: Downpour
Owner: RRGCC
Steepness:

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Quality Consensus
 

4.09 stars (11 votes)
Grade Consensus
5.12d (17 votes)

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Submitted by: Raiden
Date: Dec 8th, 2020

Submitted by: Anonymous
Date: Jan 11th, 2012

Submitted by: morganj8
Date: Jan 11th, 2012

Submitted by: morganj8
Date: Jan 8th, 2012

Comments

1
One-Fall said on April 20th, 2011
Nice, Andrew. She looks great. Love the name.
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Andrew said on April 20th, 2011
I had a hard time grading this thing, so I could use some help. The bottom could use some traffic, and the route throws everything at you, but the kitchen sink. Very little endurance required.
3
agdenm2 said on April 20th, 2011
named after the Bon Iver song?
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Andrew said on May 3rd, 2011
yes, Bon Iver song. I think I will settle the grade at 12d. Will probably lower the anchors because the top has been wet a lot this spring, and the top doesn't change the grade.
5
pigsteak said on May 3rd, 2011
lowering the chains..that's one of my tricks...will the lwoered chains allo for a new FA?
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Andrew said on May 22nd, 2011
Anchors have been lowered, so it is now 10 bolts 90 feet long. Ready to ride with semi-permanent draws.
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Anonymous said on September 20th, 2011
Cool route. Lots of crumbly holds. Feels like 12c.
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Rob Smith said on September 21st, 2011
Nice addition Andrew; thanks for the work. On the grade, I have tried this a few times now without sending and feels like 13a to me. Harder crux moves than Demon Seed and feels harder than Reticent, both of which I have done. Still a bit loose down low on the easy part and some of the pockets in crux continue to degrade although there are several sequences through the crux that work.
9
griffin said on September 29th, 2011
sand with a side of choss. just kidding its good
10
climb2core said on January 9th, 2012
Fun climb, felt like 10d to the rest. Smack down crux after. I was thinking it would be cool to add a set of anchors at the rest to add another 10ish warm up. Anyways, great climb... thanks for bolting Andrew.
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Andrew said on January 9th, 2012
Thats not a bad idea Ian. I might do it, at least it would help clean up the bottom. We also thought about putting up another route to the right of it by a few feet that wouldn't be super hard.
12
Power2U said on April 5th, 2013
Bottom half has cleaned up a bunch, top boulder problem, makes it all worth it! Tough section up there = fun! "It's not hard it just requires endurance." ...Does not apply here!
13
Cromper said on June 28th, 2013
Really good rock scramblin, good intro to the grade. Fun. ass. boulder problem.
14
brayackmedia said on October 5th, 2015
I broke a few minor things, but its cleaning up really well.
15
Andrew said on August 27th, 2020
Hello mdjagg, word on the street is that you have some interest in either bolting an extension to Skinny Love or a variation. I politely ask you that you do NOT bolt any extension or variation. The rest of this message will be to provide some history on the development of this climb and some justification for not altering it. Before my dad and I bolted this route we consulted fellow climbers and developer about the potential of putting in this line. Considering the location of this climb, right in a fairly iconic section of east coast sport climbing, right next to the legendary ultra perm and bob cave. I wanted to make sure that it was not taking away more than it was adding to the cliff. It also starts on a weird part of the trail, something we all discussed before bolting. The trail is very narrow and was concerned about it being a problem. The consensus was that it was a clear and natural line that was not to close to others and didn't take away from the history and tone of the cliff. Please do not bolt an extension. When I initially bolted it the climb, it went to the very top. I later stripped the top and put the anchors where they are. That is because the top is no harder than rest and requires awkward, slopey ledge groveling through pigeon shit. Not exactly a stellar finish. The current finish is in the best and most natural spot. My dad and I also spent significant time investigating alternative paths or adding variations. In fact there is an old set of anchors to a non existing route up there. Someone else had the same idea but ultimately decided not to bolt the possible route left of this. We also debated to the right but it just didn't make sense and didn't improve the cliff. Lastly, you should know a little about the name of this route. I am not going to get into the details but this route was named in memory of a good climber friend who past away. Many is this community knew him. This route may not be the best, but it means a lot to me and some other friends. Please keep it the way it is. Thanks and feel free to DM me if you want to discuss over the phone.
16
Mdjagg said on August 27th, 2020
Thanks for responding so quickly, and tell B. thanks for passing the inquiry along. I would never bolt a variant of someone else's route without permission, and i was really hoping you would do it! It's a beautiful line, thanks for the efforts.
17
Anonymous said on August 27th, 2020
Why would Jaggywag even consider bolting an extension to this route when he has never sent the route or sent anything even close to this grade? Has he even climbed on it ever?? I doubt it. There is nothing worse than a man with a drill who can't even clip his own stupid bolts on lead. People like this don't deserve any fucking respect. Jaggywag just trolls the wall looking for any stupid opening he can find. Hey asshole, there are virgin cliffs out there. Why don't you go on a fucking hike and find one?!? Do us all a god damned favor and stop trolling established crags that are very very much finished.
18
Anonymous said on August 27th, 2020
What do you get when a special needs person discovers a hammer drill? Answer... The end of the fucking Red. This is truly the end. If no one ever bolts another route at any established crag in the Red ever again it would be..... Wait a minute, that will never happen. These fucking morons are going to bolt every climbable surface they can fucking find. These pieces of shit have no history, they have no respect, and they act like we owe them endless gratitude for all their hard work. Lol!! Goodbye Red River, if was nice knowing you. Welcome to the end. The corporerarions are moving in and the shittiest, choss left over bullshit routes are moving in.
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Anonymous said on August 27th, 2020
*Welcome to the end. The corporations are moving in and the shittiest, choss left over bullshit routes are moving in.
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Anonymous said on August 27th, 2020
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Mdjagg said on August 27th, 2020
In case you guy's missed it, Andrew had thought about the line and didn't mention why he didn't go through with it. A private inquiry between two people about a possible line, is about as normal as things can be done, besides not responding privately, which was what had been mentioned. You sensitive old crusties need to accept that more routes are going to be bolted on walls that you've put efforts into, existing routes undisturbed, and unsqueezed.. Thank you for your efforts.
22
Anonymous said on August 27th, 2020
I love how Andrew points out that he and his father asked the developers of the area as to the worth of their contribution BEFORE moving forward. Clearly, Gagjag has never even considered this step toward bolting a route in an established area. He just walks in with his big ol' hard on, ready to prove he can see direction in the stone. He's a regular John fucking Muir. But unlike John Muir, Ol' Gagjag has to prove that his presence is worth something. That his vision is worthy. Matt Jaggers routes are a worthy contribution to The Red as much as a steaming pile of shit is, with extra TP, left unburied, in between two trees at the Lode, gathering flies, and waiting for someones dog to eat, and then lick them. Welcome to your future Red River. Since Matt Jaggers came to town, it feels more like Brown River.
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Anonymous said on August 27th, 2020
These "crusties" have been climbing longer than you have been alive. Their old wrinkled asses also warm up on your projects so watch your step son.
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Anonymous said on August 27th, 2020
The sensitive old crusties don't need to do shit. Why don't you follow their lead and continue to contribute to the gorge by developing new areas throughout the gorge? Why do you insist on bolting left over trash? Are you lazy? Why do you insist on choking out crags? Is this a fetish thing? Are you addicted to the bottom of the barrel? Or do you have a "finishing touch" complex? The only reason why someone would bolt left over trash at famous crags and not actively work on new amazing crags just around the corner is for fame. You want your name in the Red River bible. You are a fashion over function guy. A true scene fucker. Well go ahead hombre, fuck this scene for all it is worth. And last time I checked, everytime you fuck the scene, you only get one star. Keep it up lil'gag and one day all your little one stars will add up to be a great big galaxy!!! And everyone will know that you were the guy who took out the garbage. Thank you for your efforts.
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Mdjagg said on August 27th, 2020
The fact that Andrew chose to respond in the fashion he did just proves the drama club level of maturity that some "crusties" poses. I talked briefly to his good friend about it, he said he'd mention it to him and that he'd email me. That's a far cry from me being ready to go bolt a line. I specifically said I thought he should bolt it, and that I would if he didn't want to, because it looks like an amazing slab finish, 90 ft up. It'd be rad. I couldnt care less that he said no. Pretty simple. I asked privately. He responded publicly. I got my answer. Now the world is ending because he responded publicly. Could have just as easily emailed me the same thing, with no drama. But what else is there to do is this life than to anonymously complain on the internet?
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Mdjagg said on August 27th, 2020
I bolt climbs to climb them. Press whatever star you'd like.
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Anonymous said on August 27th, 2020
In case you guys missed it, Andrew clearly explained that the route originally went to the top and later stripped it and finished it to where it ends now. Jaggers can't even read and comprehend what he reads. He just makes up whatever his feeble mind pleases. This delusional moron states that Andrew "thought about the line and didn't mention why he didn't go through with it." I suggest you reread Andrew's post. He did go through with it. He removed what sucked and preserved what was best about the route. It makes sense why Gagjag doesn't understand this. Gagjag bolts garbage. He has no understanding of what it means to NOT bolt shit sections of a climb.. He only bolts shit sections. It now makes sense why he gravitated to a shit section of rock that bolts have been removed on. He sure does have a good eye for shit rock.
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Anonymous said on August 27th, 2020
Gagjag giving Andrew shit for just openly explaining the obvious. Classic Gagjag. It's always everyone else who is being dramatic. Classic Gagjag.
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Anonymous said on August 27th, 2020
Funny thing. All you have to say is sure, send Skinny Love and you can bolt the extension. Don't worry, Jaggers barely climbs .12a. It would take him YEARS to send this route. Lol!
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Mdjagg said on August 27th, 2020
Andrew posting the daily "word on the street" was all drama. I appreciate his backstory, but he could have easily emailed me, and then posted the backstory unrelated to me, if he needed to do that. It's very obvious what he was trying to do. ......And he specifically says that they decided against the line i asked about, but didn't mention why. You may need to read more thoroughly through his comments. I was simply asking the Why. That rock looks undeniably amazing. I'm loving how any existing unbolted rock is automatically choss, and youve put your blind faith in past developers to leave an area pillaged. Andrew's friend's wife is on the boardn and was absolutely stoked to see new climbs going in. Sign in and have a real conversation, or just continue to waste your time bad mouthing someone you have never met.
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Anonymous said on August 27th, 2020
Big Mouth McJagg is it again lol... little fella just doesn't know when to shut the fuck up haha, like talking to a toddler... So egocentric with no concept of what his limitations and weaknesses are
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Anonymous said on August 27th, 2020
Matt Jaggy, please do us all a favor and make like Mick Jaggy. Become a rolling stone and roll the fuck on up outta the Red.
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Anonymous said on August 27th, 2020
Some of the responses are too harsh. But even considering bolting extensions to climbs you can’t do is ridiculous!
34
Anonymous said on August 27th, 2020
The first 14 comments, made over 8 years, prove that not all new routes are trashed by anonymous comments, contrary to the assertion.
35
Anonymous said on August 27th, 2020
the red is not going to shit; there are not armies of squeezejob choss bolters, there is just one somewhat deranged attention seeker looking to become famous bolting intentionally passed over lines that he can't even hope to climb.
36
Mdjagg said on August 27th, 2020
Famous? Jesus Christ, talk about ego. I dont care about your perception of why I do what I do. What a joke🤣. Anyone that thinks they can get famous for bolting rock climbs in 2020 is delusional at best, and an anon miserable cunt at worst. I like climbing, and I like giving back, and I like bolting projects for myself to stay super motivated, simple as that. Just because all of your developer friends have huge egos doesnt mean all bolters do. These comments are projections at their finest. You witless trolls are barely worth responding to, and in case you haven't noticed, I almost never post on this site, I'm just forced to respond to anon trolls who make up bullshit about me, like Ian Kirk is "famous" for. And for the record, I've never been interested in adding an extension to this route, and never mentioned it once, just more made up shit you all have chosen to run with. The line to the right had me curious, as it certainly has an independent start, but it would be a much cleaner and better line if it split with Skinny Love at the second bolt. Again, this is why a private conversation would have been quick and easy, over and done with, and would have simultaneously shown and garnered respect, but some folks seem to love shit stirring.
37
climb2core said on August 27th, 2020
He asked for permission and got denied. That's the way it should work. Andrew's thoughtful answer also gave him some insight into decisions made during developing. Hopefully Mcjagg can learn from that process. Personally, I think any developer, no matter how experienced, should ask for some feedback before putting in any new a line at an established crag or actively being developed crag. If Mcjagg can stop threatening people for a minute, he'd probably find the developers a bit more open to working with him. At least asking was a start.
38
Anonymous said on August 27th, 2020
I am “Andrews friend”. I was working skinny love while this dude-bro is working on a squeeze job out the right side of the cave that’s gonna slice through somebody’s rope because of how bad the drag is around the corner. In between burns, I’m hangin out with some friends climbing one of the classic Bob cave routes, and this dude started asking if I knew the guy who bolted SL, so I said yeah, and when dude started talking about bolting a squeezejob out right while sharing the first couple bolts of SL. So anyway, having heard of how the dude acts when his poor bolting choices are questioned, we were polite and and spoke in general terms about “new climbs going up”, but never did I or my wife say we were supportive of yet another chossy squeezejob going up at an iconic and historical crag that already has its fair share of fame-seeker’s piles. Had we not been mentioned I would’ve kept my mouth shut, but I’m not gonna have someone say in a public forum that I was in favor of it, because I’m all honesty, I asked Andrew that if it happened if I could chop it when I’m done with skinny love, because while I may not have sent it, I’m actually close to climbing that grade and that route doesn’t deserve to be bastardized because it means so much to many people.
39
Mdjagg said on August 27th, 2020
James, you seemed liked a thoroughly nice guy, no need to hide behind an Anon post just to be a dick. And, yes, Brianna was stoked that the new "pile" went in at the Bob Cave. You all were super sweet, don't turn around and be a typical anon ass and pretend like I am some "dude-bro". If you are that fake, then next time we see each other, ill be sure to politely ignore you, and your gang of crying babies at the crag. Me and my partner were quietly working the new line, and you were the one that was over stoked on sending Skinny Love, and on sharing your stoke with us. Me mentioning the dope looking line next to it was just friendly banter, but I do appreciate you asking Andrew for me, and also for showing your true colors. Good luck on getting to the 5th bolt on your proj, dude-bro. I'm starting to see the trend here, the Red is full of Sour Patch Kids, and their crying bbabies. I can now see why you're all so miserable. And the new route is perfectly fine for falling above the lip, it happened twice and there was no rope damage, at all. I was able to get the rope to run through a gap in the lip, and it is smooth and has zero sharp edges, but thanks for voicing your uninformed opinion about a route you've never been on.
40
Anonymous said on August 27th, 2020
Be honest with yourself at least. You have over 2,000 excellent sport climbs that you haven’t even touched in the RRG. You are not bolting so that you have climbs to motivate you. You are motivated to bolt for the sake of bolting and the FA. At your age and experience level, you could climb everyday for the next 5 years on world class rock climbs that already exists in the RRG. And in the process actually improve as a rock climber and gain some perspective on what a fine line is.
41
Anonymous said on August 28th, 2020
Yes, exactly... so obvious this kid lacks both the perspective and experience to be bolting anything, yet he continues to squeeze on classic, long-established crags rather than exploring a little bit or even climbing all of the amazing existing lines already there... it is both pure ego and laziness keeping him from both improving as a climber and seeking out his own untouched rock
42
Anonymous said on August 28th, 2020
"I'm starting to see the trend here, the Red is full of Sour Patch Kids, and their crying bbabies. I can now see why you're all so miserable." -->> Great! Now go play with yourself and your little drill someplace else turdbrain!!
43
Mdjagg said on August 28th, 2020
Believe what you want. I wouldn't give away most of my FA's if what you said was true. Almost all of the routes I can do first go get shared with my friends, and we have a blast getting them open for you. That is the best part for real. And you overlooked the part about giving back, which is a big part. I'm able and willing, and it is one of the most rewarding things in climbing, and your lack of understanding just proves you've never bolted a route. Don't worry though, plenty of your favs need rebolting, and you'll have fun working on someone else's route im sure. I've gotten nothing but positive feedback on the routes I've bolted, except from the non climbing peanut gallery that exists on this site, so I'll keep looking for the passed over gems, even if it means I have to defend every one of them.
44
Anonymous said on August 28th, 2020
Nothing but positive feedback... This guy is fully delusional.
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Anonymous said on August 28th, 2020
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Anonymous said on August 28th, 2020
Matthew, I commented anonymously because I don’t have an account on RRC. Also I’m going to just go ahead and say, look: I’m sorry that I added fuel onto this fire. I felt that it was being implied that I or my wife were supportive of adding a line to a climb that holds a lot of emotional weight for some people. I had been awake for all of 5 seconds when I made that comment, and I’ll just say I was wrong of me to not just state the facts. -I was wrong to name-call. That’s immature, and I should be able to disagree without stooping to that level. -I was wrong to be a dick. -We did, in fact have a couple decent conversations that day, and I shouldn’t act like you’re an all-around bad person just because I may disagree with your development methods. I’m not a developer myself, I’m just a fucking rock climber. But from what it sounds like, developers have reached out to you and my personal opinion is that you should listen, man. Because we all need help growing. None of us is an island. -this is all disrespectful to the man for whom this route serves as a memorial, and I am just as guilty of that as anyone here. -Andrew already handled this appropriately by laying out reasons why he asked that a variation not be put up. It should’ve ended there, for all of us. Myself included. Hopefully if we see you out again we can have another conversation. Cheers, James
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Mdjagg said on August 28th, 2020
That means a lot, and proves we can all have a decent back and forth if we show some respect to one another. Im really glad you posted this follow up, because like everyone I've met in person in the Red, you and your lady were very nice, and fun to talk to. I was dreading the idea that you all could be so nice and then turn around on here and be so heinous. Sorry I was hating on your attempts on SL, it was hot and this is a rough time a year to be projecting routes with bad holds. Good luck on it, and thanks again for the follow up. Ill be on this and Archangel this weekend if you're going to be trying it more, ill see you there.
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One-Fall said on August 28th, 2020
Nice job, gentlemen. I’m all for discourse online, but hope we can leave that at home and be good to each other in our little paradise. Not sure we can trust James though. He says he is Wheatley’s friend, and we all know Andrew has no friends. Incredible father, absolutely. Wonderful sister and brother in law, no doubt. But friends, I don’t think so. Nice try, James.
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Anonymous said on August 28th, 2020
One-Fall got me dead over here.
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Cromper said on August 28th, 2020
I heard Andrew didn’t even send this. He just pulled from draw to draw with his gangly baboon arms. The original Hong point.
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Anonymous said on August 28th, 2020
man what a fucking idiot lmao