COVID-19 Climbing Guidelines: The Red River Gorge in the Daniel Boone National Forest, Muir Valley, and all RRGCC-owned property - which includes Miller Fork Recreational Preserve, Bald Rock Recreational Preserve, and Pendergrass-Murray Recreational Preserve - request that you follow the guidelines outlined on each website if you choose to climb during this time. See links above for more details about each climbing area.
Grade Trad Mixed Sport Total
5.10 - - 17 17
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Directions to Curbside

RRGCC
This wall is in property owned by RRGCC. Be respectful.
Curbside is a very accessible wall bordering the left side of the road on the way to the main Sore Heel Hollow parking area for The Gallery, Volunteer Wall, etc. The trail is located .5 miles from the turnoff onto the road leading to the parking area 50 feet behind an oil pump just before the main road turns sharply to the right and heads downhill to the main parking area. Follow the trail for a couple of minutes to reach the main wall. Most of the routes stay dry in the rain. Routes 1-4 are best accessed by walking back toward the way you drove in until you reach another oil pump on the right side (your left side if you are walking back from the original trail) of the road. You'll see a trail just across from the oil pump. There is often a hornets' nest in the sand just below a big rock next to Wildfire.

Wall Sun: Morning



Click the column heads to sort. Hold shift to sort on multiple columns.
Route Spray Name Type Grade Quality User Stars Length Picture

1

Waltz the Deal Sport 5.10a
 
2.41  (56) 50ft

2

Sudoku Sport 5.10a
 
2.60  (68) 50ft

3

Action over Apathy Sport 5.10b
 
2.98  (54) 60ft

4

The Return of Frank Byron Sport 5.12c
 
4.00  (7) 55ft

5

Curbside No Traction Sport 5.10c
 
4.23  (52) 35ft

6

Ankle Brute Sport 5.11a
 
3.18  (38) 35ft

7

The Second Labor of Hercules Sport 5.10c
 
2.23  (48) 50ft

8

Single Finger Salute Sport 5.10c
 
2.66  (64) 55ft

9

Ghost in the Machine Sport 5.10c
 
3.65  (84) 60ft

10

Subtle Thievery Sport 5.11c
 
2.85  (48) 65ft

11

Conscription Sport 5.11c
 
3.74  (53) 65ft

12

Avalanche Run Sport 5.11d
 
3.65  (34) 65ft

13

Wildfire Sport 5.12a
 
4.49  (80) 50ft

14

Outbreak Sport 5.12b
 
3.25  (8) 55ft

15

Thunder Sport 5.12c
 
2.00  (2) 60ft

15a

Fillet the Hand Sport 5.12a
 
3.00  (1) 70ft

16

Massive Attack Sport 5.12a
 
4.24  (29) 85ft

Comments

1
Anonymous said on February 1st, 2007
The obvious crack that arches up and left in the back of a corridor/wide chimney is called Curbside Distraction.
2
RRO said on February 1st, 2007
ahhh, the old days , curbside distraction and summer haze
3
pigsteak said on March 30th, 2007
Curbside is a very average area as far as the quality of the routes goes. If you want a quick burn close to the road, then it is worth a day or so. But otherwise, there are many better crags.
4
Meadows said on August 24th, 2008
What happened to the steps on the approach? It's a bit dangerous for the ankles now.
5
anticlmber said on October 13th, 2008
best wall at the red!! we should take all out-of-towners here first, that way they may not bring their friends/themselves back
6
Anonymous said on April 15th, 2010
Found a pair of shoes at the crag 4-14-10.
7
Anonymous said on August 13th, 2012
browsing the individual climb comments one would think this crag sucks, it does not, it must have cleaned up a lot. still some isolated brittle holds but good tens and a nice mix.
8
dustonian said on August 13th, 2012
Most of the crags in the Red sucked a little at first
9
Anonymous said on September 29th, 2020
I put in a couple of hours at the end of the day yesterday with a bucket,, shovel, and pick axe and got the road leading uphill at the hairpin "swing wide" turn going to the Sore Heel lot most of the way fixed up. I watched as 2 SUV's got on 3 wheels while driving over this section. Looked super sketch. Probably needs another 10ish five gallon buckets of gravel to fill in the remainder of the divot- probably 25ish bucket fulls in so far. The right side is now easily passable. Don't go too far right and destroy the new drainage line dug to keep runoff to the side.
10
Anonymous said on September 29th, 2020
(1) I’m glad to see enthusiasm for trail projects; (2) unfortunately, some of that enthusiasm just creates problems that have to be fixed later on, so best to get all the information before undertaking work; (3) I cannot speak to his road repair since I have not seen it; (4) the Sore Hill Rd is not there for climbers, it is maintained by the oil company for the oil company, (5) the flat holler parking and short-cut trail is there so climbers can by-pass the road; (6) the oil company intentionally keeps it rough to deter traffic, (7) please consult the RRGCC land manager before doing any trail work or road work, as outlined in land use rules found on RRGCC website.
11
Anonymous said on September 29th, 2020
Curious how this could be true when there is a climber parking lot at the end of this road? Sure, the oil company doesn't care if we can access our own parking lots, and of course they're not going to do work that's unnecessary for them. Trail work and road work are not the same things. Ill try my best to finish the work up very soon. Should just take another hour or so.
12
Anonymous said on September 29th, 2020
The RRGCC has made zero investment in the Sore Heel parking lot since building the Flat Holler lot and short-cut trail. Road work is trail work. Talk to the land manager first. Don't make things more difficult for the volunteers who are responsible for dealing with the oil company and everything else.
13
Anonymous said on September 29th, 2020
Oh come off it. If the dude wants to put in some grunt work, say thank you and move on. To the dude, thank you. The oil company ain't going to give two shits if someone shuffles some dirt and gravel about in a manner that isn't detrimental. Boo hoo elsewhere.
14
Anonymous said on September 29th, 2020
You're welcome. I was planning to eventually get to that steep impossible section before the lot so that people could actually use the Sore Heel parking that was invested in at one point, and so the coalotion didn't have to invest money that could be better spent elsewhere. Id rather see cars using that lot than full parking everywhere else and roads made difficult to pass because people park anywhere they can fit. The Red will continue to grow, and parking is already limited. I looked at the Drive By parking lot as well. This could be doubled in size very easily with some weed whacking and a bit of extra work. Ill contact the land manager and see what they have to say.
15
Cromper said on September 29th, 2020
I think you’re gonna have to run that by corporate first.
16
Anonymous said on September 29th, 2020
Sounds like it.
17
Anonymous said on September 29th, 2020
Damn just when you thought this site couldn't get any more lame...
18
Anonymous said on September 29th, 2020
Go read the trail comments on Velo Crag, look at how it is still a mess, and then you will see why you should simply ask before breaking ground.
19
Anonymous said on September 29th, 2020
Ain't nobody 'breaking ground'. It's a road. With potholes. That a fella is voluntarily puttin in time to fill. Heaven forbid. Do you ask your momma if you can shake your wee wee after you go pee pee?
20
Mdjagg said on September 29th, 2020
Velo is a mess because the main trail was built horribly, straight up through a natural waterfall drainage, and it is extremely dangerous in the winter months. Maybe I'm the only person that climbs when death ice is hanging from the waterfalls, so I guess no one else cares that the trail forces you to walk right into hogan's alley. I'm still up for fixing Velo and taking advantage of the work I did once Curtis has time to meet up with me to go over the details. Covid has put a pause on any of his organized work, so the timing is a little rough. I apologize for not knowing beforehand that someone needed to be contacted for approval, but the trail I cut was all rhodos and will be grown back in a year if it is decided the better path is not to be used. The new path cut after my work is pretty atrocious imo, but I know you guy's don't care about my opinion 😉 . My path could be made proper, but if it is decided to keep using the existing horrible one, then I'll do what it takes to fix that one instead.
21
chandler said on September 29th, 2020
You could have called the land manager 10 times in the time it has taken you to type your comments. Sometimes the land manager has a heads up that the oil company is about to regrade the road. Think of that? Unless you have inside information with the oil company and a degree in road building, just call the fucking land mgr. It's not just your land, but just you can fuck it up for everyone else by being a know-it-all who is too stupid to not know what you don't know.
22
chandler said on September 29th, 2020
PS. I'm angry because I have given up too many climbing days to fix bad trails, trails put in by people never attended a trail day and didn't know there's a right and wrong way. Infirmary, Coopers, Throwback, Chaos, to name a few. Just do it right the first time. Save the volunteer time for something better.
23
Anonymous said on September 29th, 2020
Bing bing bing... Chandler is triggered.
24
chandler said on September 29th, 2020
My comments were aimed at anon 13 and 14. I've worked with the past two RRGCC land managers, and the same issues come up again and again. It's a reoccurring sentiment, and completely wrong, that the land managers haven't thought through these parking, road and trail issues. It's best if everyone is on the same page.
25
Anonymous said on September 29th, 2020
Somebody call Monica. Her geek needs a dong in the cornhole
26
Anonymous said on September 29th, 2020
Is the land managers number published? Where?
27
Anonymous said on September 29th, 2020
Pretty sure his number is written above the glory hole in the Miguel's bathroom stall
28
Mdjagg said on September 29th, 2020
29
Anonymous said on September 29th, 2020
Self-righteous Trail Dorks of the RRG unite!!!
30
Anonymous said on September 29th, 2020
All hail the Dork Lord Curtis!!! Champion of the choss crag. Builder of climber impaling fences. Husband to his own identical twin.
31
Mdjagg said on September 29th, 2020
We're all lucky to have Curtis on the team. Ingrate trolls will never appreciate anything or anyone.
32
Anonymous said on September 29th, 2020
Hey Anon #25 a/k/a Anon #27 a/k/a Anon #29, when you get out of high school and get a job, donate some money to the RRGCC so they can buy a road grader and not worry about this any more.
33
Anonymous said on September 29th, 2020
Mdjagg, I agree with you we are lucky to have Curtis....and Audrey too. I remember around 2014 when the Access Fund told the RRGCC that if they didn't get a trail plan for Miller Fork, Access Fund wouldn't lend money for any new land purchases. Curtis and Audrey got things moving. So in addition not parking in mud puddles and hiking up mudslides, Access Fund loaned money to keep BRRP from becoming someone's private cabin retreat.
34
Anonymous said on September 29th, 2020
#BackRoadsMatter
35
Anonymous said on September 29th, 2020
Mdjagg you'd do better as a troll... You'd be slightly less unwelcome in the community
36
Mdjagg said on September 29th, 2020
I dont mind being hated by ingrates.
37
climb2core said on September 29th, 2020
New crags trails are built by developers to be a temporary solution to hike all their shit up to the crag. Then trail builders can come in with crews to make a long term sustainable trail. So I guess I’d disagree that your fixing trails that weren’t done correctly. I think it’s a bit much to ask the developers to build those trails. That’s why early communication between developers and land managers let things go more seamlessly. But either way a trail crew still will need to put the time in,
38
Mdjagg said on September 29th, 2020
Good points. The Velo trail was definitely created from the developers just using the path of least resistance, and Curtis acknowledged that, but still felt it was too much work to do things differently in the current situation, especially considering more pressing things need priority right now. Still unclear on what needs to be done at Velo, unfortunately.
39
chandler said on September 29th, 2020
“New crags trails are built by developers to be a temporary solution to hike all their shit up to the crag. Then trail builders can come in with crews to make a long term sustainable trail.” That is the way it happened at Miller. In hindsight, I think it was a mistake. Miller was the largest LOC purchase ever of (mostly) unbolted land, so maybe it is a situation that will not repeat itself. It didn’t have to happen in such a chaotic manner with redundant trail work. And those temporary developer trails are scares that take a long time to heal. We should learn from the mistakes.
40
Mdjagg said on September 29th, 2020
If you ever want developers to work well with land managers, the process of submitting a proposal for a new climb or wall needs to be extremely fast, and completely confidential. Otherwise, people will just see something and bolt it, like it's always happened in the past. You can't go from no rules to fascism unless things are handled perfectly. Don't really know how that could be done effectively unless several of the developers that live down there really stepped up and took it seriously.
41
Anonymous said on September 29th, 2020
That's the way climbing development and then subsequent trail improvements, as necessary, have happened at pretty much every crag ever, you dipshit
42
chandler said on September 29th, 2020
There’s a thread on here from 2013 where a guy on my JATD crew lamented removing a rhodo. I defended the trail we built as the least impactful way to have a popular climbing area. It’s just a fact: to have climbing you have to cut down some trees and move some dirt. But does that mean you have to do it without a plan? An endangered bat lives in Miller Fork; it sleeps on the sides of trees. Does it make sense that just anyone with a chainsaw can remove any tree at any time? An endangered fish lives in Miller Fork; the fish needs pristine water, and trails create silt. Does it make sense to build two trails when you can build one? No planning worked well enough in 1995 but it’s 2020 crowds now. Plan specifics would depend on the property. Buying an area with existing routes or roads is different from buying a blank slate. Will we learn from the Miller Fork mistake? That’s not my call. The whole community needs to figure this out. I know at least four developers who are now insisting good trails go in before their walls open. As for me, I helped the RRGCC buy MFRP and BRRP. I helped negotiate the deal, literally typed the mortgage to the Access Fund, and sat at the closing table. There’s a lot of land out there. I’m willing to help climbers buy more, but only after everyone figures this one out.
43
climb2core said on September 29th, 2020
I think developers have been pretty willing in recent times to curtail the public opening of crags until base hardening and long term trails have been put in place. It's also a bit disingenuous to blame developers for Miller Fork. There was no ask by land management to not publicly share crags. It also has taken years to put in the full trail infrastructure at Miller Fork. I don't think people would support a land purchase and then have to wait 5+ years to use it. Lastly, I think you vastly overstate the environmental impact of cutting a rudimentary trail. Trees are not cut down to make a trail by developers. Occasionally a tree will be removed from the base of the crag, but that is more the exception. We may hop on some stones to cross a creek, but we are hardly ruining pristine water. My sense is that developers are willing to work with the land managers, but it won't do much to improve that collaboration if you are calling out the developers. Those people that put up Coopers, Infirmary, Chaos, and Throwback have done quite a bit for climbing in the Red. To be clear, you are calling out Kipp, Ray, me, Blake, the Wheatley's, Dan Beck, and Matt Tackett to name a few. I think that in the future if land managers can get on top of getting out quickly to get trails done it will be more cooperative. I know when I bolted Hole in the Wall, the land managers knew about it from early on and it still took almost 2 years. So like I said before, a developer will have to make a trail to haul there shit up and won't wait 2 years. When the next purchase happens, the RRGCC needs to have an aggressive plan in place if they want sustainable long term trails built from the get go. Looking forward to working with land managers to constantly improve the process and outcomes.
44
Anonymous said on September 29th, 2020
Ian, I'm not calling out any past developers. With a few exceptions, the Miller developers did just what the RRGCC asked. The problem is that RRGCC asked virtually nothing at all back in 2013. I'm fine going back and correcting those trails, because we didn't know then. MFRP was the first LOC land acquisition of its size involving mostly undeveloped land. What I'm asking if we learn from the experience so future volunteers can focus on just opening new walls instead of correcting old trails. I agree that waiting 5 years to open a climbing area is unrealistic. There are alternatives. One would be to not acquire land without both a plan and the financing in place to hire a professional trail crew to cut a few miles of trail in the first couple months. When you're talking about a $250,000+ land purchase, setting aside $20,000+/- for a trail crew is doable.
45
chandler said on September 29th, 2020
Comment #44 is mine.
46
Anonymous said on September 29th, 2020
Chandler is no longer on the Board of Directors for the RRGCC. His views here do not necessarily reflect the views the of the RRGCC.
47
chandler said on September 29th, 2020
Mdjagg, I don't at all blame you for working on the Velo trail. Pitching in is admirable, and just going and doing it is the way it has been done for most of climbing's history. I have no doubt that when you started working on the Velo trail, you had never seen a sign or internet post from the RRGCC asking you to contact land mgmt. The coalition understandably has been focused on paying for land. Sometimes land mgmt and communications takes a back seat to fundraising. As you know, there's a little bit of experience needed to make a good trail, one that won't be muddy after days of steady rain, one that won't need to be fixed 5 or 10 years later. I'm glad to hear that Curtis and you will be able to get out there eventually. I know the coalition has a very long "to do" list. If Curtis cannot make it out there with you before the Spring, I'll see if we can coordinate something.
48
chandler said on September 29th, 2020
My views are entirely my own. As noted above, future decisions are not mind. I did learn a few things in my 4+ years of board membership. Learn from prior mistakes or not. Your call.
49
climb2core said on September 29th, 2020
Well that makes more sense. At first it seemed that developers were doing something wrong. However, it seems that RRGC just needs to continue with developing their cooperative plan for trail work to occur along side development. Thanks for your perspective.
50
Anonymous said on September 29th, 2020
Now, lets buy some more land with good cliffs so this becomes a worthwhile conversation!
51
chandler said on September 29th, 2020
Ian, year ago when you first said, "Let's use SS bolts," I know you were not knocking people for the old ways. I don't intend to knock anyone for the old ways. Not many LOCs own land. Everyone is just trying to figure this out as they go.
52
Mdjagg said on September 29th, 2020
Thanks, Chandler. Ill let you know if Curtis and me can't link before the dead of winter. Hopefully I can get some work in to fix the issues before the dangerous conditions return. As far as a collab between developers and land managers, I feel like a legit submission form, similar to RRC New Route Submission form, could be the path to sending in proposals. GPS coordinates and a basic description or picture upload would be all it takes. The issue will always be the response time. No one wants to wait a month on something they're ready to bolt tomorrow. This is why I suggested a few of the developers that live nearby act as a liaison between us and land managers to keep things moving quickly. If not, i hate to say, the compliance rate would be pretty low to nill, if i had to guess. There needs to be a plan for easy submission, and easy approval, a system that people don't mind doing because it's simple, and quick. Make it a pain in the ass and no one will want to go through it.
53
chandler said on September 29th, 2020
To the guy offering to work on the Sore Heel road: My comment #21 was out of line. I have no doubt that you too never saw a sign or post asking you to contact land mgmt. I handled the RRGCC's social media from approx 2016-2017 and never made such a post, so I share blame for that. As you can see, there's usually more going on behind the scenes. I bet Curtis gives you a quick thumbs up. I appreciate your offering to chip in.
54
Steezmcgee said on September 29th, 2020
Mdjagg wouldnt trail work get in the way of you bolting the road cut?
55
Mdjagg said on September 29th, 2020
That's trad, braj. Those fractures take micros all day. I wouldnt want you all to have to waste your time chopping 5 star trad lines.
56
Mdjagg said on September 29th, 2020
I'll confess, it was me doing the work on the road, which I never would have considered a "trail". I just didnt want people like Steezmcgee to chime in with their infinite wisdom before a real conversation got started. Ill take some pics and talk to Curtis about getting the road back in shape to use the Sore Heel parking. I can't imagine a scenario where more parking is not welcome. No problem, Chandler. Everyone is passionate, I get it.
57
Raiden said on September 30th, 2020
Saturday 9/19 was probably the most cars I have ever seen in the PMRP. Every parking lot was full (including the sore heel lot!) and every conceivable parking spot was taken (including 4 cars by the Curbside oil pump and 2 cars by the Choco parking oil pump - could probably use some no parking signs in these spots btw). I don't know what the answer is; the popular crags are already completely slammed on weekends with the current parking capacity. But the situation seems unsustainable as it continues to get busier and busier.
58
Anonymous said on September 30th, 2020
The answer is go climb somewhere else on busy weekends, duh
59
Anonymous said on September 30th, 2020
Hundreds of legit climbing destinations in the southeast but 95% of climbers pack into the same 3 overhyped RRG areas every weekend lol
60
Anonymous said on September 30th, 2020
Jaggers suggesting how to implement a route approval process that was proposed exclusively to stop him. The irony is astounding.
61
Mdjagg said on September 30th, 2020
I'm not advocating for it, im just saying if you all are going to do it, it is going to need to be done very well for anyone to actually participate. The process is just the land manager's fantasy at this point. Ive submitted a bunch of routes just to see what kind of response there would be and it's been weeks with zero response. The whole idea is absurd to me. I am in favor of people going out and climbing the new routes put up by "new" developers (to the area) and seeing if they're legit. If the routes prove to be dangerous or poorly done, then someone needs to be contacted. The irony is all the bullshit ive gotten was over routes that are well bolted and are really fun climbs, because people decided to share their uninformed opinion before they'd ever even seen the routes. As far as I know, Billy, Erik, and Jimmy are the only ones that actually put in some time climbing them, and none of them had anything hyper critical to say. I understand the need to vett new people, but considerng what is being offered, you all should be a little more receptive when someone is putting their time and money into a place that needs more climbs. Cant complain about crowds AND new climbs at the same time. More decent climbs means crowds will thin out. Ive seen gangs of people hanging out climbing my routes at Velo, where they'd otherwise be taking up room at the Gallery, Chica, etc.
62
Anonymous said on September 30th, 2020
Goddamn you still act like you're offering some kind of vital service to the Red... people give you shit because of your assholey arrogant-but-inexperienced online persona here and on Mountain Project, and that's it. Well that and your ego-driven need to spray down all over the internet as soon as bolts go in the rock. Just recognize that bolting is a fun but selfish, egotistical pursuit and go back to laying low again, people were starting to not hate you there for a little bit.
63
Anonymous said on October 1st, 2020
soon every single page on this god forsaken website is going to be overrun with dumbass comments by jaggy. it's like fucking bedbugs man he won't go away
64
Mdjagg said on October 1st, 2020
Take what you like from my comments. Everything we do is self serving and a community service all at the same time. My point is that we should treat each other with respect, and save the route criticisms for after they've been inspected. And this whole idea of waiting to submit routes until their open is nonsense. People submit closed projects all the time. How else would there be closed projects on this site if they weren't? I even asked the Admins whether I should or shouldn't at the very beginning and they told me yes, and to update them when they're open. Take it up with them. As far as crowds go, it's only a matter of time when other areas open up and are published, but until then, we can continue to do what we can to help, like making the parking we do have accessible. I happen to enjoy dirty work, but I dont like big groups of people (organized work), so ill be trying to help in this area on my own time in the evenings.
65
DrRockso said on October 1st, 2020
Not trying to drag this thread out but, please don't bring my name into this. The one you put up at Drive By is a choss pile monstrosity for example, I love choss more than the average Joe but don't act like you're doing the community a service for squeezing in lines that have been passed over for years, sometimes decades and claim that its going to 'spread the crowds out' go find some moderates at an undeveloped wall and scrub them for hours if you want to 'do the community a service' and 'spread the crowds out'
66
Mdjagg said on October 1st, 2020
The fact that you brought up Drive By just shows how pathetic you are. I was specifically talking about the routes at Velo, and yeah, i scrubbed the shit out of them, and I was giving you credit for being an actual legit critic. Im going to guess that was your bail biner on my red tag then? Otherwise, how would you know? Don't be mad because you couldn't even make it past the slab. When did other developers get to decide what someone else gets to bolt? The fact that anyone is willing to share their opinion about something they've never climbed is lame as fuck. And the fact that a conversation about road work and volunteering time has turned right back into choss, squeeze job, pass overs is why you all can never get anything productive accomplished down there. Stay in Muir Valley if you dont like new climbs going in. And stay off my tagged routes, Erik.
67
Mdjagg said on October 1st, 2020
Btw, I know you were coming to Bob Marley that night to climb my red tag. Stay off my tagged projects.
68
Anonymous said on October 1st, 2020
Lol Jaggy is still the same clueless angry gumby with a drill and giant ego, he's completely incapable of learning anything
69
Anonymous said on October 1st, 2020
Damn climbers are some of the most annoying and lamest user group out there. Just look at this thread, climbers have to be the biggest cry babies out there. Give it a rest kids.
70
climb2core said on October 1st, 2020
“ When did other developers get to decide what someone else gets to bolt?”. Developers have a long tradition of bouncing ideas off each other when considering a new line at a well established crag. And they also have a tradition of generally listening to said advice, especially when it’s a widely held opinion. Had you sought advice, I think the route would have not gotten much support. That was why I put the condition on accepting FGI hardware. Hopefully you will seek input before bolting routes like that. No one will snake your line, and sometimes not bolting a route is the better decision.
71
Anonymous said on October 1st, 2020
Ray's smarter than the rest of us, playing the long game. Retirement plan is sell the RRC transcript to a soap opera producer and live large off the royalties.
72
Anonymous said on October 2nd, 2020
Lol yeah, these threads are worse than a debate with Trump in it... we have Jaggypants instead 😂
73
Anonymous said on October 2nd, 2020
"The Bolter Apprentice" meets "Belays of Our Lives"
74
Mdjagg said on October 2nd, 2020
I have appreciated your input, Ian, as you've been very thoughtful and reasonable. The problem lies in that if no one has bolted a potential line for 20+ years, like the one at Drive By that i was/am extremely excited about, theres no chance any of the people that have already passed on it would want to see it put up. That's just human nature. Ive had at least 2 people that have been around for a long time, tell me that they have been looking at that section of the wall for years and want to check it out when it's ready. My point being, there will never be any universal concensus on anything. People can give it 1 star if they don't like it, but it won't change the fact that it's been challenging, fun, and worth it to me. I appreciate what FGI does, and that you are there to help fix up old routes, and damaged routes like the one at Bob Marley, but any new route I put up will be bolts that arent subsidized by the community. Im curious too, if you guys aren't reaching out in support, or in a friendly manner, who would you expect me to run potential routes by? My people don't give a shit what goes up, it'd be useless to ask them anything of the sort.
75
caribe said on October 2nd, 2020
MdJagg: "My people don't give a shit what goes up, it'd be useless to ask them anything of the sort." Honestly this statement is damning. To have that perspective one has to be either ignorant of or bored with development. It's better to just climb with these people than to collaboratively develop routes with them.
76
Mdjagg said on October 2nd, 2020
Ive never collaborated on any routes. Ive put up everything on my own and by myself. Some of my climbing partners have helped me suss beta and whatnot, but no one has ever helped me bolt or clean, etc. My developer friends have better things to do than worry about what kind of climbs im looking for. Ill admit, im a weirdo, and odd, bizarre climbs are something I am actively looking for, the ones that no one else thought would work or are too much trouble to deal with.
77
Anonymous said on October 2nd, 2020
You probably have never collaborated because no one can stand to be around you.
78
Anonymous said on October 2nd, 2020
We all know for a fact that Erik didn’t leave a biner (sry can’t be using that triggering language) on your choss pile eyesore shitbucket of a route. Just open the damn thing so we can break all the fucking sand holds and then have a reason to chop it.
79
Mdjagg said on October 2nd, 2020
Good talk. Glad we could figure out how to work well with the land managers.
80
Anonymous said on October 2nd, 2020
Bro, just step away from the internet. Trust me on this. You don't have to "say your piece." You really don't.
81
Anonymous said on October 2nd, 2020
Jagg: "odd, bizarre climbs are something I am actively looking for, the ones that no one else thought would work or are too much trouble to deal with" Translation: Turds
82
DrRockso said on October 2nd, 2020
I have no interest in getting on your red tagged choss piles or any of your routes for that matter. The only time I've been to Bob Marley this year is the time you were out there, which was the first time I saw you put in a route there. You have some strange paranoid fantasies.
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Anonymous said on October 3rd, 2020
People telling Mjagg to step away from internet don't get it. He loves this shit. It's like telling methheads to step away and stop smoking meth. This guy is a pathetic clown.