COVID-19 Climbing Guidelines: The Red River Gorge in the Daniel Boone National Forest, Muir Valley, and all RRGCC-owned property - which includes Miller Fork Recreational Preserve, Bald Rock Recreational Preserve, and Pendergrass-Murray Recreational Preserve - request that you follow the guidelines outlined on each website if you choose to climb during this time. See links above for more details about each climbing area.

8 Ball

This route is located in the Southern Region at The Motherlode

Hot For Teacher

1 votes

Snooker 5.13a (Sport) *****

First Ascent: Dave Hume in 1995
Length: 70ft
Bolts: 8 (report bad bolts/anchors)

Click for more images
This is the next bolted line 8 feet right of 8 Ball. Begin with a bouldery start to a ledge. Mantel the ledge then climb slanting crimps to a pocketed section. Make a desperate move left to a jug beneath the roof. Get a shake and climb small crimps on the headwall to the anchors.
5.13a concensus with new finish
Moves: Bouldery or Technical
Descent: Cold shuts
Stays Dry: Stays dry
Owner: Private

Add / Edit Tags

Route Spray
Show Project
Quality Consensus

4.6 stars (42 votes)
Grade Consensus
5.13a (42 votes)

You must login to save your input!
+ add
+ add



Submitted by: Anonymous
Date: Mar 26th, 2021

Submitted by: Elodie
Date: Apr 17th, 2013

Submitted by: Elodie
Date: Apr 23rd, 2012

Submitted by: Elodie
Date: Apr 23rd, 2012

Submitted by: Elodie
Date: Apr 18th, 2012

Submitted by: horst
Date: Jun 7th, 2011

Submitted by: horst
Date: Jun 7th, 2011

Submitted by: brayackmedia
Date: Dec 22nd, 2010

Submitted by: brayackmedia
Date: Dec 22nd, 2010

Submitted by: ray
Date: Dec 18th, 2005


the lurkist said on February 4th, 2003
13a concensus with the new finish
allah said on April 21st, 2003
Easier than 8-Ball in my opinion
J said on October 13th, 2003
Astroman said on March 5th, 2004
The "old" finish to the 8-Ball anchors is SO MUCH BETTER.
ray said on April 19th, 2004
Man, this route rocks. Not too much to rest on. Just climb fast.
allah said on March 5th, 2005
12b/c IMO
Anonymous said on May 14th, 2005
allah is 5.faggot, IMO.
512OW said on November 10th, 2008
Harder than 8 Ball, though not as good. Finishing on the 8 Ball anchors seems silly when this finish is so fun. Good stuff.
pumpout2004 said on September 8th, 2014
Did the 8ball finish for kicks. Not as good. Does anyone even climb on this wall anymore. I had to pillage no less than five spider villages on my way up.
dustonian said on September 8th, 2014
Guess you want points for that huh?
pumpout2004 said on September 9th, 2014
KyleHT said on April 24th, 2019
I climbed on this over the weekend and noticed the hangers have dug a groove about halfway through the quicklinks on most of the fixed draws. I didn't have any hardware with me to fix it. At some point this will become problematic as I have heard that air is significantly weaker than steel in arresting a fall. I can bring some fresh quick-links next weekend, but I think glue-ins might be a more permanent solution since they don't grind on the links the way traditional hangers do. I'm willing to help do this, I just don't have the knowledge or experience. If someone wants to send me a PM so we can fix up this popular route together, please do. Thanks!
Anonymous said on April 24th, 2019
I'm not saying snooker wouldn't benefit from some glue ins at some point, but an immediate option that is cheap and sustainable long term would be to clean the fixed draws on this route and hang your own. A perma at the jug and one a couple bolts below that would make cleaning simple as well.
Anonymous said on April 24th, 2019
You don't even need a cleaning draw for this route. The draws should be removed.
Astroman said on April 24th, 2019
I would think no permas would cut down on the traffic but it hasn't made any difference on 8 Ball. Regardless, I agree with removing them. Maybe leave one new perma on the bolt before the fingerlock since most people get shut down there. If and when it does get a re-bolt, I propose moving the last bolt slightly to the left making the left clipping hold options/sequence more viable. Plus the hole/horn out right stays wet for most of the Fall/Winter season.
Anonymous said on April 24th, 2019
Take draws down, move last bolt left and revert to 12D rating. Crowd issues taken care of.
Ryanwsu4 said on April 25th, 2019
I’d appreciate it if you left it for 2 more weeks. I’m high pointed 5 moves from the finish. I of course am concerned about the safety of the route, but I have my flow really nailed down.
Anonymous said on April 26th, 2019
Plz nobody fuck up this guys flow state!!!
Anonymous said on April 26th, 2019
Ryan, I hope you are kidding. If not, fuck off. I can't even describe in words how much I disdain you, and I hope to never run into you at a crag.
Anonymous said on April 26th, 2019
Keep doing you Ryan. Good luck on the project.
stix said on April 26th, 2019
Half a decade of permas! Now there’s some tradition that can’t be broken! Somebody busted your balls bc you come of like an entitled whiney bitch. If you’re so close to doing snooker I highly doubt using your last warmup to hang a few times on the route to get the draws up there and brush the route up would be a deterrent. If it is then I guess we know the answer to overcrowding in the red.
Ryanwsu4 said on April 26th, 2019
Ugh, I forget how this site is sometimes. It’s almost exclusively negative on ANY given route comment thread. This route has had permas for 1/2 a decade or more. Undoubtedly needs new quick links for some of the permas or a few new permas all together, no argument. Shit I’d even pay for and replace them myself. Always Happy to invest $/time in a place I’ve come for years. So I hope I don’t run into you either anon, this isn’t a YouTube comment section. I’d like to hope the community at the Red has some civility, maybe even unity. This whole thread started because someone wanted to better the route, increase safety, and be positive. Or if you own the lode, do as you please. I can’t control any of it. I’ll do my best to send regardless.
climb2core said on April 26th, 2019
The less permas the better. One or two cleaning should be fine. Old ones can get a new quicklink and be re-purposed if they are in good shape. If you are on this route. Ryanwsu4, how about you buy two new 3/8" quick links, put them on two of the best permas and pull the rest? You can hang your own draws on your warm up and pull them when you are done. You'll do some community service and save yourself some cash in the process. Thx Ian
Ryanwsu4 said on April 26th, 2019
Ok, no problem. I’ll also leave the perma at the last bolt in simply because it would be so hard to even hang, if that’s ok. I work an irregular schedule and do so a bunch soon, but it will get done. I’ll leave what I take down at Miguel’s.
stix said on April 26th, 2019
There’s no need to leave the last perma as there is a good clipping hold just down and right of hanger.
Anonymous said on April 26th, 2019
Stix- most peeps now a days don't use that hold over to the right. So until Snooker gets rebolted (and that last bolt moved a little to the left), I think it's fair to leave a perma on the last bolt. Then maybe one on the bolt before the crux sequence to the jug. Strip the rest.
stix said on April 26th, 2019
Not my problem. Sounds like shitty beta if you can’t hang the draws. I’ve often had specific beta for hanging draws vs redpoint beta with draws hung. Suck it up snowflake.
Anonymous said on April 26th, 2019
Wow specific draw hanging beta! That's a new one! This thread is the gift that keeps on giving.
stix said on April 26th, 2019
You dumb shit, if there was never a need for different clipping beta for hanging draw vs already hung there would never be long or extended draws. It’s actually quite common when you regularly have to hang draws on something near your limit. Watch, if you were to take the draws down on snooker these folks are saying they can’t hang a draw on the last bolt so they would need different beta to hang it than what they’ve deemed better beta for redpointing once the draws were up.
Anonymous said on April 26th, 2019
Jeez what a snowflake. Don't look now but you're making the argument for leaving a perma on the last bolt. Hey snowflake, have you even sent Snooker using either draw hanging or redpointing beta?
stix said on April 26th, 2019
Done it plenty of times. Never used the straight up beta. I have done it goin straight to 8ball anchor as well.
Ryanwsu4 said on April 26th, 2019
This is what I was saying earlier. Could every route’s comment thread not be name calling, hatred, and intense arguing? It’s not just this route. It’s 1/2 the routes. Most climbing areas don’t get their own well kept website. Is this what we want ours to look like? Climbers who’ve never been to Kentucky check the Website out to see this? Or as I said earlier, do as you please. I can’t control any of it. I’m done commenting, just in general, on any route.
DrRockso said on April 27th, 2019
I can only imagine the only reason Ray keeps the site going is to read the troll comments. God forbid people read the trolling and decide they don't want to come to the Red!
Anonymous said on April 27th, 2019
Ryanwsu4, I think you’d be a lot happier in Colorado.
allah said on April 28th, 2019
It’s a $3 quick link......... climbers are so fukking cheap in the RRG! Or maybe “to good” to chip in some way or some how.
Ryanwsu4 said on April 29th, 2019
I unrelatedly has a serious wrist strain and can’t climb at all for a month or more. Sending for me won’t happen till the fall. If anyone wants to take down the permas they can, or I can when I recover. I’m physically unable to for now. I did, at least, ask a friend to change out the crux quicklink for me for everyone’s saftey, so that is done. I apologize, because I gave my word I would, but my wrist is VERY swollen.
Anonymous said on April 30th, 2019
Instant karma
Anonymous said on April 30th, 2019
We wait with bated breath. You were so close to sending 12d too.
Ryanwsu4 said on April 30th, 2019
I wondered if you might be the kind of person that’d smile at someone else’s physical injury. If you believe in karma, I’d reconsider how you talk and treat people in this world. Oh and no argument that snooker is soft. 12d? Maybe? I’d still be psyched if I got it either way, cuz it’s hard for me. Some climbers are struggling with 11a and others with 14a. You shouldn’t be nasty to people who are out there trying and you def shouldn’t be glad someone is injured cuz you had a disagreement on the internet with them.
Ryanwsu4 said on April 30th, 2019
And karma for what? Not only did I say agree to take the permas down, I even made sure the crux draw was taken care of when I got injured. So I’m not even sure what you mean? Karma for me doing what?
4evrgumbie said on February 12th, 2020
2nd to last bolt is getting pretty bad, be careful on it. it feels like you can pull it out by hand.
Bgsand01 said on August 23rd, 2020
Second to last bolt is pulling outward. It needs to be replaced. I would happily do it and take all the other permas down but this bolt is going to pull out soon. Especially bc a lot of people skip the last bolt and when they come off that bolt is getting the most pull.