Reward- Tired of the thiefs among us

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RRO
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Reward- Tired of the thiefs among us

Post by RRO » Tue Dec 22, 2009 1:41 am

I know myself and a few other developers and route fixers who are getting sick and tired of people stealing the links off the top of routes.

Dons new route at the crossroads just had the large one at the bottom stolen and its an old story that has happend to many of routes around the Red.

So here it is....I have a 12 pack of your choice for anyone that steps up and can tell all of us in the public forum who is doing this. Even if the guilty party steps up and lets everyone know its you, you will have a 12'r waiting for you. I just want to hear your reasons behind it.

If you do not step up then you know you are being a complete douchebag and should be ashamed.

I dont care if you dont agree with the anchor set-up, the route or whatever jacked up reasoning you used in your head to make you think it was OK......You are a thief plain and simple and to me a thief is the lowest of low......... You are not only stealing from the developer or the person who fixed the route you are stealing from everyone that climbs here.

What really pisses me off about it is that the crossroads is a new crag. Most the people going there are NOT new to the community or the sport and should know the difference of booty and gear that was put there to make your life better.

My guess is they have been climbing for a few years, never help with trail days or give in anyway to any part of the community.

Do you not think about who is buying the gear that allows you to come play or the hard work that gets put in by a select few people ?

Few things piss me off enough to spit fire and turn back into the old redneck. People hurtingh me and those I hold close and someone stealing off me or those I hold close will bring out a redneck that you really do not want to see.

Heres your chance to step up and talk about it, get a reward and not have words.

If you dont step up and help get the problem solved and I find out later who it is I will make sure you dont only have words with me you will have them with anyone I can get to listen........ and I already know that list is long and just as tired of spending money, hard work and time giving you something to come play on just so you can steal from us.
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Post by Savage » Tue Dec 22, 2009 9:25 am

I'm sorry to hear stuff keeps getting jacked. Its especially bad that people are stealing stuff off of the anchors. There is really no excuse for that.

However, I can see how people might take stuff off the route thinking its booty. When developers leave quicklinks mid-route as directionals for cleaning, I can totally see how people might think its booty. Not everyone understands why they are there. Perhaps a note in the route description would help raise awareness? Also, a drop of lock-tite and a wrench would probably ensure people dont take fixed gear. Or at least it would separate the thieves from the uninformed because they would need to take a wrench with them.

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Post by Crankmas » Tue Dec 22, 2009 9:36 am

Amen, if you or those responsible really do not know this is wrong- well now you do- and for reference- you can purchase quiklinks in lots of places but I have had good luck finding the heavier duty ones at Tractor Supply - the 3/8" diameter are the standard. Whoever placed the thick links on Dynamite in Muir knew that it would be a trade route and their foresight inspired me to go big from then on. My friends and I really appreciate the new routes done at recent crags like Crossroads and Chica and props to the folks out there putting in the effort and expense to create those routes. Don't take things that don't belong to you...

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Post by krampus » Tue Dec 22, 2009 9:48 am

I am sure there are some thieves out there, but it occured to me a few weeks ago at military that there are just way to many gumbies. Some gumby at military admitted to feeling guilty about steeling a cleener beener off of some rout because he did not know its purpose until after the deed was done (don't know what he did with the beener after he found out) but my point is that if there are 50 kids like him that only make the mistake once it may look like one bastardly thief. hopefully most of these sumpfucks get the picture and at least leave it up on another rout and maybe replace a few in the future.
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Post by pigsteak » Tue Dec 22, 2009 10:02 am

sorry Don and Matt....takes the wind out of our sails as far as developing, I know.

I had a friend in town over the holidays that got on a crossroads route that had one single large locking quicklink between independent chains. he asked if he was supposed to rap off of that single quicklink. I had to inform him yes. he has been climbing 10 years, but was not accustomed to this set up...is this the setup you are talking about?

I will add a six pack to RRO's offer if we can get explanation why these things are being stolen. Think before you take anything, booty or otherwise. I was going to leave a Frost steel permadraw with biner on clipping end and quicklink on hanger end on Malice at the Choco Factory. I was going to leave this on the difficult clip and as an aid in cleaning..but the type of scenario that RRO just mentioned made me decide to keep it for another day because I felt it would be gone in 6 months. Sad and frustrating for sure.
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Post by caribe » Tue Dec 22, 2009 10:02 am

When you have guides educating gumbies that it is OK to rip draws off sport routes under 5.12, you are going to have deal with the its-all-up-for-grabs attitude. I heard this at a cliff. It was a guide corrupting the innocents at Muir Valley. I called him out on it. The only way to foster a better world is to cowboy up and talk about it--example: Matt's post above.

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Post by bcombs » Tue Dec 22, 2009 10:10 am

pigsteak wrote:I was going to leave a Frost steel permadraw with biner on clipping end and quicklink on hanger end on Malice at the Choco Factory.
You mean you can get them to call you back? Seriously, if you have a contact there that you could share with me, please do. Climbing companies seem to be so resistant to that whole "selling your products" thing. Guess they are too busy climbing. :lol:

Edited to try no to derail...

Quit stealing quicklinks you fucktards. They are actually expensive for what they are. After RRO gives you your beer I'm going to beat you up and take it. Then I'll pour it out, cause I don't drink. Not that there's anything wrong with that. :)

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Post by pigsteak » Tue Dec 22, 2009 10:14 am

Ray and Michelle gave me a bunch of them...they are the other extreme in the community...silent and generous to a fault.
Positive vibes brah...positive vibes.

Eric Cox

Post by Eric Cox » Tue Dec 22, 2009 10:22 am

AMEN Matt!!
The few times I have gone out and helped you put up routes was enough to show me what a hard job it truly is. Not only do you have to haul your climbing gear, but a haul bag, (80 lbs +) of tools and equipment up to the cliff. Most of the time this is a thankless job, but those who are bolting seem to do it not for glory, but because they want to see the Red as a top climbing venue. However when a low life piece of trash takes something that is not theirs, it makes the Red less.
Sign me up for the ass kicking team if the need arises. Thief’s and child molesters and the lowest form of life and I will be happy to help rid them from the area.

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Post by RRO » Tue Dec 22, 2009 10:23 am

for a long time i did want to think that it was a gumby that just didnt know any better.

it happens too often for me to buy that any longer, esp at newer areas like the cross roads. you just dont see that many people out there and if they are out there at least one in the group has been climbing a little while and should know better.

as far as the last anchor that don got yanked it was the over and under style anchor with chains to one big link. but i have had links on any style anchor set up that you can think of yanked.

i bought some red locktite at lowes last night to help prevent these from walking on. the shitty thing about using that stuff is it can take heat and a big ole cheater bar to loosen them up when they need replaced. so in a few years i guess having a portable propane torch will be added to the rrg developers/fixer bag.....

as with a lot of things in life, if you have to look around to see if anyone is watching it may not be the right thing to do.
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RRO
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Post by RRO » Tue Dec 22, 2009 10:30 am

[quote="caribe"]When you have guides educating gumbies that it is OK to rip draws off sport routes under 5.12, quote]

really ?
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Post by Andrew » Tue Dec 22, 2009 10:38 am

Hey Brad, do you think the guide that Caribe is talking about is the same one that told you... well you know...
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Post by bcombs » Tue Dec 22, 2009 10:42 am

Could be... I have said to people that you won't often see project or perma draws hanging on routes under 5.12. That's a far cry from encouraging them to remove gear, but I could see how it could be escalated to that.

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Post by krampus » Tue Dec 22, 2009 11:04 am

RRO wrote:for a long time i did want to think that it was a gumby that just didnt know any better.
yeah, the fact that it was the crossroads where I have only seen locals out there, and that it was the anchors does indicate theft. Well its probably illegal to add a monetary bounty so I will just say "reward" for an explanation.
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Post by heacocis » Tue Dec 22, 2009 11:08 am

As a guide and newer route developer, knowing that stuff gets stolen AND hearing that other guides are telling clients incorrect information is really making me mad right now. To give some context, although I have only developed seven routes so far, I have already had over $100 of stuff (draws and quicklinks) stolen. Replacing this stuff just adds to the already massive expense of development. On the other hand, I have not expirienced any other guides giving bad info to the their clients, but it makes me mad to think about a guide breaking their professional obligations/ethics. So here are two ideas that may help both issues, as well as many others. First, simply take it upon yourself to inform/correct climbers when they are doing things incorrectly. Most of us probably do this already when it regards safety, but for example what about when people are being lowered through the anchors when they shouldn't be? If we all just politely mentioned something we could go a long ways towards ending this. Second, similar to Matt's original post, I think we should start naming people on here that are being dangerous or giving out wrong info. I do not mean start a blacklist or witch hunt. I am thinking more of the example given about the 'certain guide' - why not call the person out and make them take responsibility and defend themselves? Otherwise, it is too easy to hide behind the silence and continue to do such things. Thanks, Isaac
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