Reward- Tired of the thiefs among us

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clif
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Post by clif » Wed Dec 23, 2009 10:54 pm

just for a different perspective----not a developer or local.

the simple minded 'tradition' is that if it isn't 'FIXED' it's booty (unconfirmed). this has/is changing, and quite likely the Red is pacing the race.

Maybe Not.

but as has been suggested, the 'ignorant' may widely outnumber the informed and trendy.

EDIT-

yeah, that misses alot. but within the last 15 years even routes equipped with hanging draws were limited to 5.13+ routes for extended periods or if less then only for short periods and with, maybe, the thought that the gear may not be there when one got back to it.

There are many people with longer and broader experience.

and with no obligation that the 'fixer' had responsibility to replace outworn gear.

i'm out of my league, but just a few things that seem to me to be in play.

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Post by Barnacle Ben » Wed Dec 23, 2009 11:42 pm

The suggestion by
Robert Birchell was really
Good and a haiku.
"But the motto was, never think you're that cool - you're still just climbing rocks...in the woods...with bugs...and everyone thinks you're crazy."

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Post by Steve » Thu Dec 24, 2009 2:18 am

pigsteak wrote:looking at anohter thread, maybe using those plastic tie threads is the way to go...they'd need something sharp to cut them, and if those get taken, we know we have a thief.
Came across lots of biners & quick links zip tied to the ring or the hanger in Squamish. Thought that was an interesting approach as someone would have to hual up a knife or side snips to steal the hardware.

Using biners allows for quick anchor cleaning and quick replacement when they get worn from all the idots TRing through the anchor.
I see they are still lopping off mountains in Eastern Kentucky. Electricity isn't cheap.

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Post by ynot » Thu Dec 24, 2009 11:39 am

It's obviously a universal problem, then. The outdoor rated zip tie sounds like the easiest solution, but like everything else not foolproof. I know I have sacrificed my share of biners and slings just to insure a safe rappel for my party. It's always gone the next time I do the same route.
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Eric Cox

Re: stealing

Post by Eric Cox » Thu Dec 24, 2009 2:33 pm

robert birchell wrote:I wire the link or biner direct to the chain
with light copper wire. Stops 90% of theft.
Easy to change biner with small needle nose
pliers when it wears.
If anyone is needing copper wire to fix this problem, see me. I have many small peices left over from electrical jobs.

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Post by JR » Fri Dec 25, 2009 1:01 pm

You guys have really sucked the life out of being a booty hawk. You have turned one of the coolest things in climbing(getting free shit for figuring out how to get it) into thoughts like. Is this a cleaner biner? Is this someones quicklink that they want hogging up the hanger? This back up stopper might make someone else happy. This brand new sewn sling is a nice addition.

Don't get me wrong. You super hard working donating types are doing a fine job. But be real. You are doing it for yourselves. So you can treat the Red like your own personal gym. Fixed draws, cleaner biners, fancy anchor set ups so you don't have to clean, they are all meant to expedite your day. You are sprinkling your gear around the Red the way a dog marks its territory.

To be fair, I enjoy the conveniences of all these things too. I enjoy the trails you guys put in. I love not having to hang draws sometimes. And it would be nice if all your shit was there when you went back to see it. But the fact is there is a pretty good chance that it is going to be put back into the fold.

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Post by pigsteak » Fri Dec 25, 2009 5:10 pm

are you for real JR? someone takes a single quicklink off the anchors, and you think that was a selfish move by the developer for their convenience? wow, that is cynical even for me.

just to be straight, that is exactly why I don't leave quicklinks on the rope end of anchors...in my setup, someone will have to go back and change out an entire length of chain when it wears out.
I left two draws on some steep line at Curbside. gone.
I left 4-5 biners in the middle of Amarillo Sunset for cleaning...gone
I left one each in the middle of The Sound, The Fury, Confederacy of Dunces..not sure if they are there.
I was using Rick Webers static line to bolt and old TR line, and someone cut it in half.
I almost left a fixed draw on the tough clip of Malice. no way...someone will take it.

Everyone of those instances was going to be for the climber to come, not my convenience.

Sorry you feel that way...maybe all developers should just leave standard hangers at the top of routes from now on, and depend on other climbers to re-donate this stolen gear to make safe retresats. can't do that, cause then we get called out for half assing a route, doing shoddy work, being cheap, etc....

I am with RRO on this one..if you are unsure of booty or have to look around before taking it, please leave it, for the sake of all.
Positive vibes brah...positive vibes.

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Post by JR » Sat Dec 26, 2009 4:30 pm

We have had this same argument before pigsteak. We are still not fully agreeing. This time around I am more on your side than I have ever been. Not sure if that came across on my post but you are right. Like all those bolts you spray into the walls, your draws and quicklinks should be there for everyone to enjoy because you're so freak'in generous.

I don't think it is a coincidence that the people that this bothers the most are the people that take the most ownership in the Red. You(people that get bent out of shape about quicklinks or PTGBOOSAQ'ers) have an attitude like "if you fucksticks only knew how much of my life I have given to make the Red fun you wouldn't take my quicklinks...." This is not about quicklinks. This is about a handful of generous people not getting their due. If you guys are looking for my respect. Hey! You got it!

But lighten up PTGBOOSAQ'ers. Not everyone can figure out that one quicklink will kink the ever liv'in shit out of your rope but two will make it run free. Not everyone learns how to make cleaning a steep route easier(cleaner biner). I know this sound retarded but I learn little things about climbing all the time. Stuff you have know for years. You might think all this "stealing" is by evil gumballs. Maybe. But booty has always been a part of climbing and I think it would be a shame to take it away. Who doesn't have a sweet booty story? Did someone have to lose something for the same story?

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Post by clif » Sat Dec 26, 2009 5:20 pm

snafu post, just ignore.

i was at the depot today and noticed that assorted heavy duty quicklinks are 8 bucks a piece. that is real money fast and i love seeing them on anchors.

i deeply appreciate the user friendly access that many have built over the years going back over 20 years. SSS, PG, and down to Rick, MR. T, Pig (as if you didn't know) and the quiet developers.

but there are also advantages to having obstacles and a reserve of raw material. i'm not sure what the rush is, but i'd like to think that having spent something like 250k on the pmrp there'd be a stock of rock for the isolated developer to tap into for a route or two and not feel abused at the expense.

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Post by pigsteak » Sun Dec 27, 2009 8:32 am

JR..fair enough. and thank you. you have made it all well. :wink:

but just a small thing..for example, the route RRO is speaking of, I am pretty sure, is not even an instance of your rope being kinked should you remove the quicklink. you can jerry a way to still run the rope thru the chains and get down fine. the quicklink is there for convenince

my question for that specific issue...when would gear on anchors ever be booty?
Positive vibes brah...positive vibes.

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clif
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Post by clif » Sun Dec 27, 2009 6:35 pm

keep putting up routes, we'll let you know

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Post by Clevis Hitch » Sun Dec 27, 2009 9:33 pm

i changed out the anchors on papa love jugs. It had two bailers on hangers for anchors. I switched in chains and one of those big fat half inch quick links. So big I had to press it in. I don"t think that anyone is going to be able to take it off casually. If it came up missing...man i'd be disappointed. I also understand that all the gear that I've donated is just that. It's on a public route and in a public place. Conversely I've also taken booty beaners and bailers off routes. Mostly they hang on my harness until i need to bail. I don't think I've had more than one or two at a time. Although I can honestly say I"ve never jacked a set of anchors :shock:
This whole conversation is a mixed bag of tricks. :roll:
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Post by davidterrill » Mon Dec 28, 2009 10:25 am

I feel your pain rro any time a single person removes an item for them self that is so generously given for the benefit of all it leaves a bad taste in your mouth I can only offer a sugestion as i am only a bystander. I would sugest a marking on this equipment that would I.D. not only the equipment to be left on the route but it would I.D the person whom had said equipment in their person. Only a sugestion but perhaps a red paint would do the job?
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Post by gripster » Mon Dec 28, 2009 2:07 pm

Recently at Rumbling Bald there was an incident where a climber got a rope stuck in a tree over the weekend (I am assuming it was a weekend), and didn't have the means to retrieve it. They left, planning to come back the following weekend to retrieve the rope, only to find that about 10m of the rope was still stuck in the tree and had been cut (bring back any memories pigsteak?).

The thief admitted to the incident, although they never came forward on the public forum, and had no remorse, claiming it was fair booty. Any thoughts?

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Post by bcrock » Mon Dec 28, 2009 3:09 pm

gripster wrote:The thief admitted to the incident, although they never came forward on the public forum, and had no remorse, claiming it was fair booty.
Who is the thief?
gripster wrote:Any thoughts?
Bring them forward so their nuts can be removed. We take care of this shit very simply where I come from. Nobody has to know. Eventually the shit would stop.

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