gate at solar collector/darkside entrance

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ynp1
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Post by ynp1 » Wed Mar 24, 2010 10:23 pm

clevis, didnt you try that once??? i dont think you qualified...
Last edited by ynp1 on Wed Mar 24, 2010 10:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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ynp1
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Post by ynp1 » Wed Mar 24, 2010 10:26 pm

pigsteak, default is a gate???? did we (climbers) default???
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Clevis Hitch
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Post by Clevis Hitch » Thu Mar 25, 2010 12:22 am

pigsteak wrote:......I just get pissed off when people don't get involved in the decision making process, and then complain after the fact
Nobody ran the decision or the process by me because I would've told you it was a dick move.l
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One-Fall
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Post by One-Fall » Thu Mar 25, 2010 5:21 am

[quote="ynp1"]clevis has a point... what if the bank put a gate in YOUR front yard that you have to walk through everyday to REMIND you to pay your mortgage. how psyched would you be???

I see it more like this. You live in a house with 30 other people and they dont help you kick in for the mortgage. Life would be easier for you if they kicked in a few bucks.
Can't we all just get along?

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Jeff
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Post by Jeff » Thu Mar 25, 2010 5:24 am

And meanwhile, Charlie could be spending his time on more constructive things.
Can you say mentally exhausting?

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pigsteak
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Post by pigsteak » Thu Mar 25, 2010 7:27 am

ynp1 wrote:pigsteak, default is a gate???? did we (climbers) default???
um, let's don't stretch the analogy chief. if you don't make payments on your house, the bank takes it. same case here I asume. like your payment book is a reminder to pay your house payment, this gate can serve as a reminder to pay the mortgage.

it's symbolic, folks.......I thought I was the literal cynical one on here, but I have been surpassed.
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Post by RRO » Thu Mar 25, 2010 7:39 am

had a big ole reply ready and was ready to argue. then i realized its just a waste of time considering i was getting all worked up over the same BS that has been spewed by the same tiny % of people that do not have a clue of whats going on behind or in front of the "doors".

maybe im wrong but it always seems like those who do the least whine the most. those folks tend to have no idea what it takes to run an organization of this size or be involved in any way except whine and cry foul even when you are given the game.

from here on im looking at it as if you quit feeding the trolls they tend to move to another bridge.

BUT...as far as torrent goes....are you kidding me ?!?! private business bought by a private business owner, discussion should end there. remember, it was CLOSED Crag-without a gate....but as always dr bob goes above and beyond what ANYONE else would do and has been nice enough to open it up to the public often either by signing up online or by going to the OPEN meetings(which he allows the RRGCC to have there for free). if it was me or i bet anyone else in his situation and trying to actually pay for the place with cabin rentals and other activities i would shut the place down 100% and not feel bad about it in the least.

and back on topic of the sign. its a strong statement with a strong meaning. if we as a group do not continue to support the property purchase and maintenance we as a group will lose it. simple.

that gate is not locked, will never be locked. no money from the rrgcc was used to install it, all the labor was volunteer. my guess is it will spark interest from many climbers that had no idea what was going on. it will be a great place to advertise for events coming up and so on and so on. which in the end will bring money to the table to pay for the land we play on.

im not a cpa but do have some business sense. so if i had someone tells me that for 0 investment i could raise awareness to the cause and raise money to help pay for a kick ass playground. i would take it.

as in everything in life and business the gate had risk to reward or plus and minus. i think in the long run it will prove the reward is much higher than the risk and is a great way to get the word out.

if you have other ideas on how to raise awareness and in the end money to run the rrgcc and purchase the pmrp and can actually talk them out as adults AND follow through on them im sure any bod member or other involved volunteer would be happy to listen.
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DriskellHR
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Post by DriskellHR » Thu Mar 25, 2010 8:14 am

Clevis Hitch wrote:So go ahead and put my name in the hat. I volunteer for a board position.
Dude until you start showing up and putting in the work you wont be on the board. Hell someday I want to be on the board! But i'm not dumb enough to think that bitching, moaning, and the bashing the BOD, Will get me elected. Just the contrary, You got to SHOW UP do the WORK and prove your not just another chuffer for the community to take notice. No one on the BOD is entitled to be there. They are there because THEY showed up to do the work, its that simple.

I'm assuming we will see you at the roadside trail day? Don't worry I'll hold back a shovel and a maddox just for you. That way you can get involved and give your ideas constructively rather than throwing a tantrum when things are not done to your satisfaction.
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Post by Andrew » Thu Mar 25, 2010 8:40 am

I really didn't want to get into this discussion, but I will because I think I can look at it from a different angle.

I am not necessarily supporting Clevis but I think we should value his perspective. Some people are, most are not.

Perception > reality

In many cases reality really doesn't matter, what matters is the common perception of even if it is not accurate. For example, my school district is going through budget cuts. The perception of the situation is so inaccurate, but it doesn't really matter what is accurate it only matters what the public thinks, because they are the ones who vote.

By no means do I think that Clevis's viewpoint is the majority, but usually if there is one vocal person, there are also other with the same ideas who aren't vocal. What we should be looking at is why Clevis thinks this. Maybe its because he is crazy, or maybe because he has a valid point. Either way we can't just dismiss his ideas, we need to ensure the greatest transparency and think how others who may be different from us may perceive our actions.


P.S. Clevis, seriously how many other people do you know who feel this way. If your the only one maybe that should tell you something.

P.S.S. We all should encourage constructive criticism, it makes us better.

P.S.S.S. Clevis try to be more constructive with your criticism

P.S.S.S.S. I am probably retarded
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Post by bob » Thu Mar 25, 2010 8:40 am

Torrent ... open today and tomorrow. In use for a comp on Saturday (donated). Sign on or up and you can get in. I will be there tomorrow and Saturday and will let you in my house to poop so you don't have to worry about the "Lode". Also, I ain't Prez no more and I'm off the BOD. My term expired and I'm tired of the shit. With the exception of commercial ventures at Torrent, it should be open for the majority of the spring, summer and fall to general access as posted at torrentfallsclimbing.com. Access is limited (reasons previously posted) and you will need internet access to sign in.

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Post by Andrew » Thu Mar 25, 2010 8:41 am

Charlie, I really respect the way you addressed Clevis's concerns. Thanks.
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Meadows
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Post by Meadows » Thu Mar 25, 2010 8:53 am

There is now a sign on the gate to explain what is going on.

Many people stomp through the PMRP and the rest of the Red without one clue of what is going on. This may be a newsflash, but the majority of climbers out there don't read RRC.com. We have hoards of people who come through and donate nothing but their soiled toilet paper to our land.

People are oblivious to kiosks and large signs so we have to grab attention when we can. It's a small gate that doesn't impede access, but you have to notice it. :)

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DriskellHR
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Post by DriskellHR » Thu Mar 25, 2010 8:58 am

Thanks Meadows!!
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Post by toad857 » Thu Mar 25, 2010 9:05 am

Meadows wrote:It's a small gate that doesn't impede access, but you have to notice it. :)
I haven't seen it yet, but is there anything to stop people from just, simply, walking around the gate? The trail might get a little ugly, if so.

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Post by 512OW » Thu Mar 25, 2010 9:13 am

I didn't even open the gate... I just walked around it. Didn't really care why it was there... just thought it silly to have a gate with no fence. Unless we MUST open it, why will people stop and look at it any more than a kiosk?

Good idea I think... but maybe not completely thought through.
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