Buried in Muir Valley!

Access, Rehab Projects, Derbyfests and more...
weber
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Buried in Muir Valley!

Post by weber » Wed Apr 21, 2010 5:34 pm

weber wrote:
cliftongifford wrote:When is it exactly that you're needing help?
Any time... all the time. Muir Valley saw over 14,000 visitor days last year. That's about 150% of PMRP attendance. Three weeks ago we had 102 cars on Saturday and 925 visitors over the three-day weekend. :shock:

And, this year has seen explosive growth. We wouldn't be surprised if 18,000 of you all drop in during 2010.

Liz and I are finding it more and more time consuming to shoulder almost all of the maintenance, parking lot attending, restroom cleaning, etc. And the expenses are growing significantly. This is a big place with a lot of rock climbing activity at no charge. We appreciate all the help we can get.

Those interested can PM us.

Rick and Liz
SCIN wrote:Wow, Rick, it sounds like you and Liz are getting buried. You need a ton of volunteers to keep up with this. Do you think it would help to have a FOMV fundraiser or something like that to help with the expenses or is the help more of a concern?
Both.

On a busy weekend (which, so far is every one of them!) Liz and I spend much of our time manning the parking lot, scrubbing restrooms, pulling visitors' cars out of ditches, picking up trash, grading and graveling roads, cleaning and repairing culverts and bridges, weeding trails, babysitting Boy Scout and gym kid mobs, trying to keep newbies from killing themselves, etc. We could really use a break, on Saturdays, especially, to take care of personal business and enjoy the Valley ourselves, if a few volunteers could occasionally help with these tasks.

We never anticipated that Muir would grow to see more attendance than any other privately-owned climbing venue in the Eastern U.S. Liz and I appreciate climbers making contributions to the Friends of Muir Valley. But, these donations are comprised of very generous gifts by a handful and nothing from the vast majority of visitors. To date, the donations overall have averaged less than fifteen cents per visitor. That doesn't go very far toward building and maintaining the infrastructure required to accommodate that many visitors.

Countless climbers have approached us in the Valley to say "thanks" and added that they have made donations to RRGCC to help support Muir.

:shock:

(For those readers who aren't aware, none of the donations to RRGCC have ever gone to MV or FoMV.)

We would like to make it clear that we have received fantastic support, in the form of donations and hard work from a handful of great guys and gals. But their numbers pale in comparison to the large majority of non-contributing visitors.

What is climbing in Muir Valley worth to you? That's for each of you to decide.

Rick and Liz
We cannot change the cards we are dealt, just how we play the hand. - Randy Pausch
None are so old as those who have outlived enthusiasm. - Henry David Thoreau

dustonian
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Post by dustonian » Wed Apr 21, 2010 6:09 pm

This spring has indeed seemed more crowded than ever in the Red--too much good publicity can be a bad thing! How about a small visitor fee to help offset some of the expenses of running a private preserve as large as MV? Also, I am available to help out on Saturday, May 8.

Thanks for all your contributions to climbing in the Red!
Dustin

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Post by pkananen » Wed Apr 21, 2010 6:19 pm

dustonian wrote:This spring has indeed seemed more crowded than ever in the Red--too much good publicity can be a bad thing! How about a small visitor fee to help offset some of the expenses of running a private preserve as large as MV? Also, I am available to help out on Saturday, May 8.

Thanks for all your contributions to climbing in the Red!
Dustin
Can't charge a fee because of liability.

mike_anderson
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Post by mike_anderson » Wed Apr 21, 2010 6:29 pm

Some ideas:

You could put up a gate with a sign that says "Closed for maintenance until further notice...call this number to volunteer".

You could ask climbers to spend 30 minutes at the end of every climbing day doing trail work, or whatever else you need.

You could ask the RRGCC for money.

Is there a way to donate online, or must donations be made in person at the parking lot?

It's hard to get climbers to give up an entire climbing day during peak season, especially with the weather as good as it is and as bad as it has been, but if 50 people pitched in 1 hour, you might get more done than 10 people working for a day.

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Post by pigsteak » Wed Apr 21, 2010 6:35 pm

I say make the parking lot hold 10 cars max, and when it is full, post a sign out by the paved road that says "FULL".
Positive vibes brah...positive vibes.

dustonian
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Post by dustonian » Wed Apr 21, 2010 6:39 pm

Uhhh...maybe a few more than 10 piggie! The way beginning climbers like to get started it would have to be a full-on alpine 5am start to ever climb at MV again... how about web registration for the first say 25 or so cars?

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Post by pigsteak » Wed Apr 21, 2010 6:44 pm

lol..that is my point dustonian...maybe such a stringent measure will alert folks that climbing ain't free...ever...curb their access, they take note...I think the Torrent way has been immensely valuable for preventing it from being killed by overuse....over and over and over I have preached it...climbers by and large are a self absorbed, selfish user group...ya gotta get their attention.

sorry, I am done.
Positive vibes brah...positive vibes.

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clif
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Post by clif » Wed Apr 21, 2010 7:11 pm

It seems for lack of support that the idea of social stigmatization is DOA, but I think publicizing and generating a system of positive feedback for individuals that help and contribute is being preemptively discarded.

Make it so that there are advantages to being thoughtful, considerate an
appreciative.

Liz_Weber
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Post by Liz_Weber » Wed Apr 21, 2010 7:40 pm

Thanks for the ideas, Mike.
mike_anderson wrote: Is there a way to donate online, or must donations be made in person at the parking lot?
Yes, PayPal donations to Friends of Muir Valley can be made on their web site http://friendsofmuirvalley.com/. Select "Donations" on their home page menu. Their web site can also be accessed from our web site: http://muirvalley.com/
mike_anderson wrote: It's hard to get climbers to give up an entire climbing day during peak season, especially with the weather as good as it is and as bad as it has been, but if 50 people pitched in 1 hour, you might get more done than 10 people working for a day.
We agree. Rick and I don't expect someone to give up the entire day to volunteer during prime climbing weather. We would really appreciate even a couple hours occasionally.

I can't tell you the number of times I have rushed overnight guests through breakfast, so I could get down to the parking lot to help people park without taking up two parking spaces on a day when we are expecting an overflow crowd, parking on the grass, or blocking the barn door or other cars. It would mean a lot to me just to have someone help in the parking lot for the first couple of hours.

Liz

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Post by Liz_Weber » Wed Apr 21, 2010 7:58 pm

clif wrote:It seems for lack of support that the idea of social stigmatization is DOA, but I think publicizing and generating a system of positive feedback for individuals that help and contribute is being preemptively discarded.

Make it so that there are advantages to being thoughtful, considerate an
appreciative.
I'd like to get your ideas on this, Cliff. Rick and I have tried to show our appreciation to those who have helped by the following

-Publicizing their contributions and thanking them on this forum.

-Giving Muir Valley T-shirts to people who did special volunteer work or made major contributions.

-Giving special perks such as limited passes to drive 4-WD vehicles down to the valley and special exemptions to the "No Dogs" rule.

-Invitations to dinner at our home to taking them out to dinner.

-Invitations to park down at our house and use the private (shorter) trail to the valley floor.

-Providing a nice place for them and their friends to climb at no charge.

What are your suggestions for things we could/should be doing to show our appreciation?

Liz

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Post by Artsay » Wed Apr 21, 2010 8:37 pm

Hey Rick, Liz,

Just so you know the map I made for Muir in the Third Edition Guidebook pushes volunteer support and donations. Here's a link to it below. Not that it'll help a ton but it's something. I'll get in touch with you all soon so we can talk about ways Ray and I can help spread awareness and build support with this site.

http://www.redriverclimbing.com/album_p ... ic_id=2543
Does he have a strange bear claw like appendage protruding from his neck? He kep petting it.

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Post by Toad » Wed Apr 21, 2010 9:00 pm

Maybe have the parking attendants ask for donations. It's easy to ignore a box with a sign, but the face to face might promote some giving - even if it's out of guilt.
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Post by Golite45 » Wed Apr 21, 2010 9:00 pm

I would be glad to donate time. I would also be glad to pay a fee to use the property or to park even. The road maintenance alone is a task as well as cleaning up after people. You should not have to do that, but you do cause some people just use and abuse and screw it up for others.

Some Ideas I feel could be achieved:

1 trail day a month that would allow big task to be handled with working numbers instead of holding the burden individually as owners.( this trail day does not need to Be a big Party, Or free food but more to just show appreciation for the land use and all the access we have as a climbing community)

2 Parking fee + donations


Give cause you want to not because you expect something in Return!

Thanks Rick and Liz for giving the opportunity express our ideas

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Post by gregkerzhner » Wed Apr 21, 2010 9:07 pm

I really see no downsides to limiting the number of cars per day. Just throw something up on your website when the limit is reached. This would also help filter out the more destructive "smoke cigarettes, throw beer cans and cause trouble" crowd as these people won't be up early enough to get in.

A gate would work well. A towing service would be even better. Leave the "muir valley is full" sign in plain view and then tow the extra cars. After a few people get towed, people will start to respect the policy and you won't even have to bother anymore. Plus, you will be stimulating the local economy.

You could even set something up with the towing company where they give you a portion of the profit and you use it to fund valley infrastructure, or better yet, your personal champagne collection.

Maybe a few VIP spots for those who have put in more than 10 hours volunteering?

I really see no reason you guys can't be dicks about this. Its your land, and you don't have to let people on. You guys should be having a good time, not working your asses off.

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Post by john e aragon » Wed Apr 21, 2010 9:29 pm

I agree with limiting traffic by limiting cars. This only makes sense. You have a limited resourse in Muir Valley. People who work or pay get the resourses everyone gets the scraps.
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