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clif
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Post by clif » Mon Apr 26, 2010 2:11 pm

i'm dismayed by the degree of synthesis of thought and ideas in some posts.

add to your checklists being surprised by PAIN and getting caught off balance and trying to catch yourself when falling (say even wearing a helmet while on belay at sport crag) and your arm WILL reach out if not letting go but then your hand may get caught/pinned underneath you, breaking fingers and complicating locking off the rope, possibly. this is wildly improbable but it's much easier to simply anchor in when belaying a heavier climber, for one instance. hit your finger with a hammer while calmly reciting 'there is no excuse, there is no excuse'....

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Post by charlie » Mon Apr 26, 2010 2:42 pm

I hate to weigh in on Internet safety threads since experience and good technique will always trump everything academic and academia never trumps experience and technique but I like this.......
caribe wrote:.....My management of the grigri is rope-independent. It has to work the same for all ropes.
--â–º It is also a good idea to mentally/ physically separate activities with belay devices. With the grigri my palm is alway up. With the ATC my palm is down.
I've always believed it's involuntary or instinctual reactions that make the difference in a split second so repetitive techniques seem useful to me. I like the differentiation between practicing palm up and down, so your body knows what to do without waiting for you to think about it.

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Post by anticlmber » Mon Apr 26, 2010 2:49 pm

i remeber an obit of a kid that was killed in yosemite(?) by rockfall. he was the belayer , the climber was up above, the belayer still had hold of the brake end.

it's called a death grip for a reason.
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Post by toad857 » Mon Apr 26, 2010 5:20 pm

charlie wrote:I've always believed it's involuntary or instinctual reactions that make the difference in a split second
agreed

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Post by steep4me » Mon Apr 26, 2010 8:29 pm

Didn't mean to cause a s#%^&%! storm with my comment. Please everyone keep your hand on the brake end of the rope at all times. :roll:


And.....for the hundreds of you who squeeze the sides of the gri gri or curl your fingers around it to hold the cam down to feed out slack quickly, please LET GO of the cam and grab the brake end if your climber falls while clipping.

My primary emphasis was to address the people who have held onto the cam instead of the brake and allowed climbers to deck this way. I have seen it 4 times and know of countless other instances.

So, i wasn't trying to write a new guide book for the gri gri, just reminding people to get off that cam if there is a fall. I have never had a rope slip through my gri gri or anyone else's, but i believe that this can also happen. :wink:
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Post by clif » Mon Apr 26, 2010 8:43 pm

steep4me wrote:... to address the people who have held onto the cam instead of the brake and allowed climbers to deck this way. I have seen it 4 times and know of countless other instances.

to these same people-i think you're totally hot and to die for. pm me.

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Post by schwagpad » Tue Apr 27, 2010 1:01 pm

Last night at the climbing gym I realized that all this talk about belaying, especially under the circumstances, has made me a nervous belayer. Time to process. . . subconciously.

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Post by Jeff » Tue Apr 27, 2010 1:57 pm

I hear that. I'm really going to pay attention to my belay habits next time out.

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Post by TradMike » Tue Apr 27, 2010 4:04 pm

It is a good idea to keep a hand on the brake at all times. That being said, I don’t always follow this rule. I do a lot of solo top roping on business trips that are near climbing areas. I’ll go out to the crag and hike to the top and drop a single line down. I’ll then rappel down to the bottom or 200ft down if the cliff is large and climb back up using a gri-gri taking out slack as I go. Granted I use a 10.5 rope but I have fallen on the gri-gri thousands of times without a brake hand. The device has worked flawlessly every time by itself. Not that I am advocating that the brake hand isn’t important, it is. I am just saying the gri-gri will more than likely work without a brake hand as long as something doesn’t stop the cam from engaging like a hand or the first bolt or something. In climbing it is always a game of assessing risks. How safe you are is based on how well you can analyze the situation, anticipate all possible scenarios, react quickly and sometimes luck.

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Post by cliftongifford » Tue Apr 27, 2010 6:21 pm

after you've climbed 25ft or so you can tie a knot, just incase.

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Post by jordancolburn » Tue Apr 27, 2010 6:52 pm

Thats the way I've always done it and it works very well. Never had a problem with gri gri's slipping, but i've always used a 10mm or thicker rope.

I did have an accident where I was climbing and a gri gri was threaded backwards. I got to a ledge, went in direct and the belayer flipped it. Should have checked more carefully.

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Post by moonbeam » Tue Apr 27, 2010 8:25 pm

Another thing to consider, especially when belaying at a noisy cliff...

If you hear the words "off belay", don't assume it's your climber that said it. Get confirmation before taking action.

Sound silly to say, but it happened.

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Post by powen01 » Tue Apr 27, 2010 11:21 pm

moonbeam wrote:Another thing to consider, especially when belaying at a noisy cliff...

If you hear the words "off belay", don't assume it's your climber that said it. Get confirmation before taking action.

Sound silly to say, but it happened.
I always try to yell out the climber/belayer's name with the command or information... "Julie, I am off belay!" or "Pole-gargler, take it up!". You know, just so there's no confusion with the other groups around me.

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Post by Shamis » Tue Apr 27, 2010 11:31 pm

anything involving 'off belay' should require a minimum of 2 verbal confirmations.

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Post by bcombs » Wed Apr 28, 2010 9:03 am

powen01 wrote:..."Pole-gargler, take it up!".
At some crags you might have ten people simultaneously taking.

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