Ground Fall @ Drive-By

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jdstic2
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Post by jdstic2 » Sun May 30, 2010 10:16 pm

you should bring your abilities up to the climb, not the climb down to your ability. if there is a potential ground fall that your concerned about go over the moves in you mind till you feel comfortable or realize your over your head and down climb. climbing is dangerous, sport climbing has taken some of the risk out since you can rest at every bolt and bail when ever but it is still dangerous.

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Post by weber » Sun May 30, 2010 10:53 pm

pigsteak wrote:very high first bolts, and stick clips help...and helmets.
Amen. Been preaching this for years. First bolt around 16 feet; second one no more than about 5.5 feet above first one. Then reasonably space em out there on up . Don't believe it? Do the math. With decent belaying you will not deck even if you reach high to clip the second and come off.

There are a lot of routes around the area with spacing similar to this: first bolt 12 feet; second bolt 10 feet above first one. Do the math - automatic decking for the climber who butters off while reaching high to clip the second.

Several routes in Muir have recently had bolts 1 and 2 relocated to minimize chance of decking, and more will be re-spaced in the future.

Even some of the top gun developers seem not to pay attention to the spacing of bolts 1 and 2. Free country; develop as you wish, but don't do it at MV.

RW
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Post by heacocis » Sun May 30, 2010 11:29 pm

And people are still complaining about high first bolts and the need to use stick clips!
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Jay
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Post by Jay » Sun May 30, 2010 11:36 pm

KD wrote:What if you feel funny in it? Esp when people giggle
Fuck Em' if they can't take a joke...

Think of it this way- in the long run, you'll still still be around in 10 years, and you can giggle back about their colostomy bags and neck halos...
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Post by pawilkes » Mon May 31, 2010 8:23 am

jdstic2 wrote:you should bring your abilities up to the climb, not the climb down to your ability. if there is a potential ground fall that your concerned about go over the moves in you mind till you feel comfortable or realize your over your head and down climb. climbing is dangerous, sport climbing has taken some of the risk out since you can rest at every bolt and bail when ever but it is still dangerous.
it has nothing to do with your abilities. rock breaks, holds get slimy and full of sand. i've fallen on routes that I've already sent and decked twice when holds have broken. there are always risks that cannot be identified ahead of time and they can bite you in the ass. I do think there is a line between precaution (stick clipping the first bolt, wearing a helmet) and taking the route down to your level (stick clipping the third/fourth bolt, top roping it 80 times). and alana says you need to go back to contraction school, its "you're"
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Post by BluegrassBouldering » Mon May 31, 2010 8:41 am

Josephine wrote:the petzl meteor III is still the best helmet you can get. :-D

As neal strickland used to tell me "one day, you'll be able to say you were wearing helmets before they were cool" 8)
Once again, lightest does not equal best for all climbers. Many people are not responsible enough with their gear for a bicycle style helmet. That being said, I want one.

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rjackson
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Post by rjackson » Mon May 31, 2010 8:50 am

I've always been a proponent of a long stick clip, and if I can reach it I have no problems sticking even the second bolt. Especially if conditions warrant. If I can reach the second bolt then it seems the potential for ground fall is pretty high with a blown second clip. Also, I haven't been bolting long, but the high first bolt makes sense to me and I am implementing where possible, and definitely assessing safety and 'trying' to consider the weakest climber. But sometimes the rock requires you to just put up the line and it is what it is. Personal responsibility must be adopted by individual climbers.

With that said, many climbers are too complacent. Climbing is not a sport that that should ever be taken lightly and it seems to me that as it grows in popularity, the risk is minimized. And it seems almost every piece of equipment comes with a warning, most people just aren't believing it. "Climbing is inherently dangerous. Severe injury or death is possible."
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Post by camhead » Mon May 31, 2010 10:26 am

rjackson wrote: With that said, many climbers are too complacent. Climbing is not a sport that that should ever be taken lightly and it seems to me that as it grows in popularity, the risk is minimized. And it seems almost every piece of equipment comes with a warning, most people just aren't believing it. "Climbing is inherently dangerous. Severe injury or death is possible."
Agreed. Even many sport climbs have occasional spots that are "don't fall" zones. Usually we don't think about them, and they are almost never near cruxes, but all the same, they are there.

Does anyone know what route this was on?
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Post by the lurkist » Mon May 31, 2010 10:33 am

breakfast burrito, I believe.
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Post by Safe Climber » Mon May 31, 2010 2:31 pm

Thanks for all the varied and interesting insights and comments. Someone asked "What preventative measure would I take?" I dunno? Great question. I supposed that getting some dialogue started on this thread is a small step. Education is by all means the most powerful tool in getting people dialed in on good habits. I come from a traditional climbing background and it saddens me to hear about climbers hitting the ground so frequently in the near past. I have had some close grounders on sport routes that were prevented by great belay skills. The use of helmets has also been touched on in this thread. That alone will not prevent a ground fall but can less the damage in a short ground out or swing into an object. Perhaps another small steps is posters and signage at trail heads and kiosks reminding people to be heads up. Speaking to a person that is doing something critically wrong endangering themselves or others is, what I hold, as a moral obligation. Just some thought from the top of my head but lets keep the dialogue coming.

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clif
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Post by clif » Mon May 31, 2010 3:18 pm

i'd recommend targeting gyms and equipment outlets for any 'user group' effort to protecting access and reducing injury.

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Post by DriskellHR » Mon May 31, 2010 4:09 pm

clif wrote:i'd recommend targeting gyms and equipment outlets for any 'user group' effort to protecting access and reducing injury.
and who do you suggest do this? I'm all for it but I think its up to the individual climber to educate themselves. That being said The neg impact it has on our community could be a problem as mentioned before.

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Post by the lurkist » Mon May 31, 2010 4:39 pm

I think the trend is toward a laissez faire approach toward belaying. With the number of people forcing the probabilities of human error occurring more frequently, education of the climber and re establishing with in the culture of climbing the seriousness of the belayer's job are the most effective measures that will change this trend.

The first bolt on Breakfast Burrito is fairly high off the ground. Ten Feet? I know you have to climb a bit to get to it. I guess someone fixing egregious first bolts will remove one small factor and pad the probabilities a tad, but again, the belayer and his/her attentiveness and skill is the final arbiter of deck or no deck.
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Post by Garmin » Mon May 31, 2010 5:54 pm

Does anyone know if the person who decked is okay?

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Post by Josephine » Mon May 31, 2010 6:12 pm

Garmin wrote:Does anyone know if the person who decked is okay?
I asked around at Miguels and no one seemed to know. I tried to find her on facebook with no luck. Her name is christine (or maybe christina) lee from chicago. i'm not sure how the first or last name is spelled though.
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