Miguels raising money for steel

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pigsteak
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Re: Miguels raising money for steel

Post by pigsteak » Mon Oct 25, 2010 9:45 pm

dustonian is finally right..that long fall is not a factor 2...

after all this time, he finally nailed something.
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Re: Miguels raising money for steel

Post by clif » Mon Oct 25, 2010 9:49 pm

and if the gear pulls? or, say, if the first of only a single pitch route starts out on an elevated stance...
it's not open to interpretation, really, is it? length of fall over length of rope 'out'.
i've never been to the madness cave but walking by to the easier stuff, but what i read in the post about a factor 2 fall seems plausible.
it could also happen at the zoo (MAYBE, whatever that route that trends right off the block)
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Re: Miguels raising money for steel

Post by Artsay » Mon Oct 25, 2010 10:01 pm

From what I saw, there was about 60 feet of rope out and the climber fell a good 90 feet, about 30 feet below the belayer. It was ridiculous.
Does he have a strange bear claw like appendage protruding from his neck? He kep petting it.

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Re: Miguels raising money for steel

Post by dustonian » Mon Oct 25, 2010 10:09 pm

Wow that is ridiculous...he must have come super close to the ground. Gotta subtract those 15 feet of the belayer being pulled up to the first draw from the fall factor calculation tho... By that math, it would be a factor 1.25 if your 60' estimate is correct (don't forget the rope running at a 40-45 degree angle tho on the belayer side)...maybe a sad new record for shitty RRG belaying! Woulda been ground fall almost anywhere else....

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Re: Miguels raising money for steel

Post by SCIN » Mon Oct 25, 2010 10:10 pm

The long fall was stupid and scary for most of the people around. Factor ,2,3,455 or not.

Are perma draws really about safety? Man I must be dumb. I thought all these perms were going up because it sucks gigantic pigsteak nuts to clean these overhanging rigs! We stuck those perms on cell block and iniquity a few years ago and about 14,345 euros have whipped, tugged, and fallen on them since. They seem in pretty good shape. If one happens to be bad just swap it out with another! At least they'll last way longer than a shitty aluminum.

I actually have replaced all of my quick draws with full steel. My rack weighs about 20 pounds but it's getting me stronger and I don't have to worry about shitty aluminum.
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Re: Miguels raising money for steel

Post by rhunt » Mon Oct 25, 2010 10:16 pm

There are 'some' routes that require fixed draws (the madness cave) so tell me what routes you plan on "fixing" before I give you any of my money?! It seem the community is a bit divided on this subject but most agree that certain route warrant fixed draws. If you are going to ask for money for new steel draws, I think you owe it to the community to be clear and specific where their money is going.

What DOES team suck think about the idea of having to worry about replace bolts and draws, seem like they barely get enough money to replace bolts let alone steel draws. Who's in charge of replacing those steel draws when they wear out? Team suck?
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Re: Miguels raising money for steel

Post by Rotarypwr345704 » Mon Oct 25, 2010 10:59 pm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2GV1iYEa ... r_embedded

How about we take all of the money from this weekend and put it toward this? Just think if we could fill up the whole ravine under the madness cave!

Anyone else a little concerned with how close he ended up toward that temporary wall?
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Re: Miguels raising money for steel

Post by ahab » Tue Oct 26, 2010 7:02 am

Rotarypwr345704 wrote:Anyone else a little concerned with how close he ended up toward that temporary wall?
nope.
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Re: Miguels raising money for steel

Post by vertical1 » Tue Oct 26, 2010 8:24 am

I also think it would be nice to prioritize the routes according to which one will be fixed first.

Artsay - With the factor two fall, sixty feet of rope out means the climber couldnt have skipped the last two bolts on Omaha, he/she would have been shortroped long before then. Probably very close to a factor one, which is a really big fall, but substantially less than factor 2.

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Re: Miguels raising money for steel

Post by rolex1 » Tue Oct 26, 2010 9:49 am

We will be bringing back the Wax bomb. It has been way too long.

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Re: Miguels raising money for steel

Post by RRO » Tue Oct 26, 2010 10:29 am

Good job D ! Whether everyone agrees or not it kicks ass that you and your family do so much for the area. Thanks does not do what you all do justice....

As far as the Team Suck view, I dont know everyones view on the issue. But as normal am not worried about stating mine.

Team Suck along with many many other dedicated folks that never get credit(like Jeff N replacing FRC) have been replacing bolts and anchors for a long time and will continue to do so. I cant speak for the "many other" dedicated folks but as Team Suck we will only be focusing on bolts/anchors and will not be in the business of replacing draws.

While I dont think that every route needs to be perma-drawed and have not made it a secret that I think the perma-draws are getting out of hand I do think that quite a few routes in the Red will always be perma-drawed. If they are going to be equipped they may as well be equipped with something that will last. But, like many of you I do not want to see it getting out of hand and draws hanging on Brother Stair and Defy. I think this is just another growing pain the area has to work through and as a community we will find the balance point in time.

Come down and support what D and Miguels is doing ! The Halloween party is always a wild ride.
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Re: Miguels raising money for steel

Post by Artsay » Tue Oct 26, 2010 10:44 am

vertical1 wrote: Artsay - With the factor two fall, sixty feet of rope out means the climber couldnt have skipped the last two bolts on Omaha, he/she would have been shortroped long before then. Probably very close to a factor one, which is a really big fall, but substantially less than factor 2.
The Lode was packed and there were a ton of spectators. Ask around, I'm sure you'll get a similar story. The climber skipped the last two bolts on Omaha (I'm guessing the route, BTW, so you all please don't skin me alive if I got the route wrong) and fell deep into the gully at least 30 feet below the belayer. I had a pretty good view from the Undertow wall and he fell as far into the gully as he could've without hitting the bottom). Honestly, I think my numbers are conservative to what happened and at that I think that puts it at a 1.5 factor fall (90/60, right?)? Stretch, angle to belayer, and what-not aside I said the fall was "close" to a factor 2 fall to emphasize the severity of the situation because falls like that aren't common. That kid could've killed himself and probably isn't even thinking of the damage on his rope or checked the draw he whipped on. From what I saw, he wasn't even thinking of the send either, just wanted to take a long whipper.
Does he have a strange bear claw like appendage protruding from his neck? He kep petting it.

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Re: Miguels raising money for steel

Post by bcombs » Tue Oct 26, 2010 11:02 am

bcombs wrote:I'm curious, who is driving the Team Suck initiative right now?
Matt, is that you? Or, Blake? I'm trying to figure out who to contact.

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Re: Miguels raising money for steel

Post by RRO » Tue Oct 26, 2010 11:03 am

either one but the blakster is top suck for sure.....
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Re: Miguels raising money for steel

Post by dustonian » Tue Oct 26, 2010 11:14 am

Artsay wrote:
vertical1 wrote: Artsay - With the factor two fall, sixty feet of rope out means the climber couldnt have skipped the last two bolts on Omaha, he/she would have been shortroped long before then. Probably very close to a factor one, which is a really big fall, but substantially less than factor 2.
The Lode was packed and there were a ton of spectators. Ask around, I'm sure you'll get a similar story. The climber skipped the last two bolts on Omaha (I'm guessing the route, BTW, so you all please don't skin me alive if I got the route wrong) and fell deep into the gully at least 30 feet below the belayer. I had a pretty good view from the Undertow wall and he fell as far into the gully as he could've without hitting the bottom). Honestly, I think my numbers are conservative to what happened and at that I think that puts it at a 1.5 factor fall (90/60, right?)? Stretch, angle to belayer, and what-not aside I said the fall was "close" to a factor 2 fall to emphasize the severity of the situation because falls like that aren't common. That kid could've killed himself and probably isn't even thinking of the damage on his rope or checked the draw he whipped on. From what I saw, he wasn't even thinking of the send either, just wanted to take a long whipper.

I hear ya Michelle, the fall factor is really pretty irrelevant--the point is that factor one or more falls should be incredibly rare while sport climbing (really only on the first bolt if you fall from the area of second) and to voluntary take one while at the TOP of a route is pretty idiotic... ropes are only rated for a discrete number of factor 1 falls (or ONE factor 2), usually only 5 to 8 for typical sub-10mm sport climbing ropes. Not to mention it sounds like he came very close to the ground and was therefore entrusting his life to a single non-locking aluminum carabiner... a common fallacy in these stupid "Euro-slack" megawhips

(Regarding the particulars of the fall in question though, if he fell from above the last two bolts on Omaha there was probably about 100' of rope out, if not more.)

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