Miguels raising money for steel

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One-Fall
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Re: Miguels raising money for steel

Post by One-Fall » Tue Oct 26, 2010 11:18 am

RRO wrote:either one but the blakster is top suck for sure.....
I agree. Blake probably sucks the most. Matt, you are a very close second for level of suckness.
Can't we all just get along?

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Re: Miguels raising money for steel

Post by Silk » Tue Oct 26, 2010 11:20 am

dustonian wrote:a common fallacy in these stupid "Euro-slack" megawhips

(Regarding the particulars of the fall in question though, if he fell from above the last two bolts on Omaha there was probably about 100' of rope out, if not more.)

U sure it wasn't a "trust fall"? :P


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Re: Miguels raising money for steel

Post by chriss » Tue Oct 26, 2010 11:22 am

dustonian wrote:
pretty idiotic... ropes are only rated for a discrete number of factor 1 falls (or ONE factor 2), usually only 5 to 8 for typical sub-10mm sport climbing ropes.
Ropes are rated on a finite number of factor 2 falls. They test them at the extreme end of the spectrum. As a sport climber this makes me feel really good, as it is virtually impossible to get close to a factor 2 fall on a single pitch climb.

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Re: Miguels raising money for steel

Post by dustonian » Tue Oct 26, 2010 11:40 am

chriss wrote:
dustonian wrote:
pretty idiotic... ropes are only rated for a discrete number of factor 1 falls (or ONE factor 2), usually only 5 to 8 for typical sub-10mm sport climbing ropes.
Ropes are rated on a finite number of factor 2 falls. They test them at the extreme end of the spectrum. As a sport climber this makes me feel really good, as it is virtually impossible to get close to a factor 2 fall on a single pitch climb.
Not exactly. Single ropes are rated based on "UIAA falls," which consist of dropping an 80kg weight 15 feet onto 9' of rope until it breaks... in other words, a factor 1.67 fall. Granted, this is still fairly reassuring (if only it weren't for all those pesky knife-edged fixed draws everywhere!). Most manufacturers recommend counting any factor 1 fall as a UIAA fall and retiring any rope after a fall anywhere close to factor 2.

Lots of sources on this including:
http://www.climbing.com/print/equipment/slender/
http://www.theuiaa.org/safety_standards.php

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Re: Miguels raising money for steel

Post by toad857 » Tue Oct 26, 2010 11:51 am

retarded discussion about factor 1s, 2s, ratings, et cetera. go find something else to do.

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Re: Miguels raising money for steel

Post by dustonian » Tue Oct 26, 2010 11:53 am

You're right, it has no relevance to climbing.

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Re: Miguels raising money for steel

Post by chriss » Tue Oct 26, 2010 11:57 am

dustonian wrote:
chriss wrote:
dustonian wrote:
pretty idiotic... ropes are only rated for a discrete number of factor 1 falls (or ONE factor 2), usually only 5 to 8 for typical sub-10mm sport climbing ropes.
Ropes are rated on a finite number of factor 2 falls. They test them at the extreme end of the spectrum. As a sport climber this makes me feel really good, as it is virtually impossible to get close to a factor 2 fall on a single pitch climb.
Not exactly. Single ropes are rated based on "UIAA falls," which consist of dropping an 80kg weight 15 feet onto 9' of rope until it breaks... in other words, a factor 1.67 fall. Granted, this is still fairly reassuring (if only it weren't for all those pesky knife-edged fixed draws everywhere!). Most manufacturers recommend counting any factor 1 fall as a UIAA fall and retiring any rope after a fall anywhere close to factor 2.

Lots of sources on this including:
http://www.climbing.com/print/equipment/slender/
http://www.theuiaa.org/safety_standards.php
O.k., I guess I had a misconception of how they tested the ropes. I found a couple websites claiming a fall factor 2, and several others claiming the following:

"The UIAA test that determines a ropeís strength is called the drop test. The test uses a 176-pound (80-kilogram) weight for single ropes and 121 pounds (50 kilograms) for half ropes. In the test, the weight is tied onto the rope above an anchor. The weight is then dropped 16.4 feet on a 9.2-foot section of rope. This creates a fall factor of 1.8. The fall factor is determined by dividing the amount of rope out of the anchor by the vertical distance fallen. The most serious theoretical fall is one with a fall factor of 2."

So I guess I was trying to point out that the fall factors on the tests are much closer to 2 than 1. I wonder why they do not test with a fall factor 2. It seems as though they would want to test the worst case scenario?

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Re: Miguels raising money for steel

Post by dustonian » Tue Oct 26, 2010 11:59 am

Yeah, it's weird. I think it's because they want to test how the rope performs going up though a skinny carabiner in a big fall.

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Re: Miguels raising money for steel

Post by pigsteak » Tue Oct 26, 2010 5:45 pm

why don't people adopt a route they want to put steel on, and go do the work too..maybe a bit of ownership will help....
Positive vibes brah...positive vibes.

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Re: Miguels raising money for steel

Post by One-Fall » Tue Oct 26, 2010 6:19 pm

pigsteak wrote:why don't people adopt a route they want to put steel on, and go do the work too..maybe a bit of ownership will help....

That's exactly what i did :)
Can't we all just get along?

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Re: Miguels raising money for steel

Post by dssclimb » Tue Oct 26, 2010 6:33 pm

Bill Ramsey took that same fall in the Video 'Naskarma' back when he and Manboy were trying to see who could get closer to the ground. Also i think I put a steel biner on the second and third to last on Omaha a year ago.

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Re: Miguels raising money for steel

Post by pigsteak » Tue Oct 26, 2010 10:13 pm

One-Fall wrote:
pigsteak wrote:why don't people adopt a route they want to put steel on, and go do the work too..maybe a bit of ownership will help....

That's exactly what i did :)
you sure did...and a huge thx chief!
Positive vibes brah...positive vibes.

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Re: Miguels raising money for steel

Post by rhunt » Wed Oct 27, 2010 9:51 am

Artsay - this issue isn't how far the climbers fell or what factor fall it was, its that fact that they did it to begin with. It's that we feel we need to protect those idiots from themselves. It goes back to the discussion of dumbing down rock climbing to the lowest common idiot. Making that specific situation safer by making sure the draws are steel isn't really helping. Why should we spend any money or time enabling people to make poor decisions? Did anyone at the lode that day say anything to those two or did everyone just have a good laugh and thought it was cool?
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Re: Miguels raising money for steel

Post by Artsay » Wed Oct 27, 2010 11:19 am

But Rob - they saw it in 'Naskarma' so it's okay to do right?

And who says we're doing this to protect those kids? I'm psyched on it to protect my friends and me, the folks climbing these routes all the time and RRG locals. I'm sick of climbing routes with someone else's fixed nasty gear and having to trade out sketchy biners all the time (can't tell you how many Ray and I have replaced this Fall already). The steel draws are not a catch all solution but they are a sustainable option for decreasing route maintenance and increasing safety because they are a much more durable alternative to aluminum.

BTW, you're preaching to the choir. Education is key but it is not a guarantee. Just ask any school system trying to prevent teen pregnancy and spreading of SDTs; sure ,they educate but they also make condoms readily available to sexually active teens.
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Re: Miguels raising money for steel

Post by dustonian » Wed Oct 27, 2010 11:20 am

I agree with that for sure... getting kinda tired of trashy old fixed gear too. Can't even really give a route a good onsight burn without checking all the biners to see if they're sharp first.... Thanks Michelle and Dario!

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