MV anchor cleaning accident

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Re: MV anchor cleaning accident

Post by dustonian » Thu Oct 17, 2013 9:23 pm

Well put Shannon!

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Re: MV anchor cleaning accident

Post by JeffCastro » Thu Oct 17, 2013 10:19 pm

"Expect nothing (from others), offer everything."

Worth repeating.

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Re: MV anchor cleaning accident

Post by krampus » Thu Oct 17, 2013 10:36 pm

very well said Shannon, and rick as well. regardless of any BS I may spew, your contributions have been immeasurable.
How you compare may not be as important as to whom you are compared

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Re: MV anchor cleaning accident

Post by WDW4 » Fri Oct 18, 2013 9:46 am

Shannon wrote: I will not attempt to answer any, only highlight some of the issues raised…
1. What, if any is/are the climbing partner(s)/belayer’s duty/involvement to assist the rappelling climber? Eyes on the ground? None?
2. What should/can experienced climbers offer less experienced climbers in their vicinity? Keep an eye out for them?
3. Should lowering be encouraged as opposed to rappelling off routes?
4. Does knowing there are competent rescue crews available in the area reduce the “sense” of risk in a climber’s minds?

I do not have answers for these questions or presume to say what others should do. I have my preferences, for example, I prefer to be lowered as opposed to rappel. I admit I make mistakes. I know that I take risks, sometimes unnecessary. I personally subscribe to what I call the John Bronaugh rule (from whom I borrowed the following)…100% personal responsibility for all of my climbing decisions, actions and risks, rely on no one for anything, be able to extricate myself in all situations as if I climbed alone. And yet, I try to keep an eye out for ALL other climbers in my vicinity, offering “fireman catches” or telling them if their rope is on the ground to climbers rappelling, watch others thread their gri gri, etc. In other words, expect nothing (from others), offer everything. :D
Well said. I think risk management can be done best when the belayer and climber understand themselves to be both actively participating in the climbing event -from before the first climber leaves the ground, until both are back on it safely.

Without putting blame on anyone in this or similar accidents (because I don't know them or the details of the situation), in situations where I as belayer had the opportunity to check my partner's harness, rope, etc and failed to do so, any accident resulting from improper rigging or knots in those elements means I failed as much as the climber. Same goes for knowledge - if my buddy falls because I didn't teach him how to do "X" skill well, I failed as much as he did. Same goes for others doing unsafe stuff nearby - if I see an unknown child or adult about to touch a live wire, and I don't tell them clearly to stop (and how to be safe), "they should have known better" is completely irrelevant to the fact that my silence produced their injury as much as their ignorance or carelessness did.

Or we can go through life expecting others to reap all the consequences of their mistakes. That path has benefits to, but it makes us all jerks.

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Re: MV anchor cleaning accident

Post by Frethawk » Fri Oct 18, 2013 12:39 pm

Thanks Shannon for that great post, I really like the John Bronaugh rule.

I was going to comment on some of the 4 issues listed in context of this accident but then realized I'd once again be discussing that afternoon's events in detail. I guess the only thing I'll say is that even though I was actively belaying another climber at the time, even though I was a good 30 ft left of the accident with a partially obstructed view, and even though the day had been busy so I got used to the sight and sound of lots of climbers from other groups milling about doing their own thing, I STILL think I should've noticed that the fallen climber didn't have is ends down.

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