Long Wall Ambo

Access, Rehab Projects, Derbyfests and more...
User avatar
ynp1
still a dumbass
Posts: 1324
Joined: Thu Sep 16, 2004 6:54 pm
Location: Bishop, CA

Re: Long Wall Ambo

Post by ynp1 » Thu Oct 27, 2011 11:01 pm

That is also why I don't let people use my rack, unless I know they can climb safely with it. Reydelag, remember this, the next time you decide to give somebody just enough rope to hang themselves. Not that you are fully to blame, but should shoulder a little of it.
I don't have haters, I have fans in denial.

the lurkist
In Crust We Trust
Posts: 2244
Joined: Wed Nov 13, 2002 10:07 am

Re: Long Wall Ambo

Post by the lurkist » Sat Oct 29, 2011 8:52 am

It is only a matter of time before there is another fatality in the Red. It will likely be a head injury. We can't stop it. We could try to educate by getting a message out to the masses, but there is no mechanism to mentor every gym climber coming out.
"It really is all good ! My thinking only occasionally calls it differently..."
Normie

TradMike
BAM!
Posts: 1173
Joined: Wed Nov 06, 2002 10:57 pm
Location: Cincinnati, OH
Contact:

Re: Long Wall Ambo

Post by TradMike » Sat Oct 29, 2011 9:36 am

The leader must not fall. This should be your mantra for the first few years of trad climbing. If you don't think you could solo it, don't get on it.

Rock Wars is somewhat difficult to protect. The flake is thin (it will flex a little and spit out gear) and the gear is small. I would not like to fall on the gear anywhere low on that route and the heavier you are the scarier it would be. I saw someone crater on that a long time ago. The one piece they had in broke the rock but it slowed him down enough.

User avatar
Clevis Hitch
My Name is Joe.
Posts: 1461
Joined: Mon Oct 12, 2009 1:10 pm

Re: Long Wall Ambo

Post by Clevis Hitch » Sat Oct 29, 2011 9:38 am

Who hasn't hung themselves out there by being in over there head?

Now you're talking about some govermental body!? You guys keep talking this shit and some politico is going to see a chance to take power and institute policy. You'd better think about what you're saying.

Climbing used to be about the misfits and the cocaine cowboys. Enjoying success in a world that they couldn't get comfortable in.

Now you get these soccer mom types who make sure that everybody gets a trophy and look for someone to sue when shit goes wrong.

The first thing you flat-landers did wrong was to leave Minnisota. You climb in some gym, then come down here and disrespect our rock. (I gota car, lets go race!)Now you're going to spread rumors about the guy who had the balls to climb the rock (on borrowed gear). Then the second fell on a piece,didn't inspect it, just kept climbing like he was at some flat-land gym.His fate was in his own hands!

Fuck you retards, why don't go play in traffic in Minisota!
If you give a man a match, he'll be warm for a minute. If you set him on fire, he'll be warm for the rest of his life!

LK Day
Lame Wade
Lame Wade
Posts: 445
Joined: Mon Aug 09, 2010 9:47 pm

Re: Long Wall Ambo

Post by LK Day » Sat Oct 29, 2011 10:05 am

I think the gyms have a responsibility that they may not be living up to. Is there a word of warning in the gyms to the effect that "What one experiences here does not prepare one for climbing in the outdoor environment. Critical skill sets that are not part of climbing in the gym are required. Climbing without these skill sets is likely to lead to injury and death"? If so, is there any emphasis placed on these warnings? Do the gyms provide access to training programs for those transitioning to climbing in a natural environment? Just wondering.
Last edited by LK Day on Sat Oct 29, 2011 12:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.

heacocis
Gumby
Gumby
Posts: 79
Joined: Fri Jan 19, 2007 10:51 am

Re: Long Wall Ambo

Post by heacocis » Sat Oct 29, 2011 10:39 am

LK Day wrote:I think the gyms have a responsibility that they may not be living up to. Is there a word of warning in the gyms to the effect that "What one experiences here does not prepare one for climbing in the outdoor environment. Critical skill sets that are not part of climbing in the gym are required. Climbing without these skill sets is likely to lead to injury and death"? If so, is there any emphasis placed on these warnings? Do the gyms provide access to any training programs for those transitioning to climbing in a natural environment? Just wondering.
Obviously I can't speak for any other gyms, but at Hoosier Heights we try to be as clear as possible about this. I think it is kind of sad that I have to tell people this, but I guess it is a reality. In fact, we used to have an anchor cleaning station set up where people could practice doing so, but we recently decided to take this down so that someone couldn't be taught how to do it by their friend (who may or may not know the safe and correct way). Now the only way that a person can learn or practice anchor cleaning here is to have "official" instruction by a staff member. It was a tough and in many ways symbolic decision, but there were too many people coming in and trying to teach themselves how to clean after watching a video online. I think this is the reality of the current, younger (18-25) new climber.
Wave Bolt- the best climbing bolt available! www.wavebolt.com

"...I'm over all that macho stuff, and if I bolt a route, it will be done properly." - Colin Goodey

User avatar
pigsteak
The Crocodile Hunter
The Crocodile Hunter
Posts: 9684
Joined: Tue Jun 17, 2003 2:49 pm
Location: Like Prince my name has now changed..please call me Piglovely.

Re: Long Wall Ambo

Post by pigsteak » Sat Oct 29, 2011 11:41 am

Was a helmet being worn?
Positive vibes brah...positive vibes.

EricDorsey
Gumby
Gumby
Posts: 182
Joined: Mon Jun 08, 2009 12:52 pm

Re: Long Wall Ambo

Post by EricDorsey » Sat Oct 29, 2011 11:44 am

Clevis Hitch wrote:Who hasn't hung themselves out there by being in over there head?
Hate to agree with him but thats kind of how I feel. Larry, no one "back in the day" got themselves in over their head? I find that hard to believe. Im sure it happened less often because there were a fraction of the climbers there are today but people doing stupid things is nothing new.

LK Day
Lame Wade
Lame Wade
Posts: 445
Joined: Mon Aug 09, 2010 9:47 pm

Re: Long Wall Ambo

Post by LK Day » Sat Oct 29, 2011 1:08 pm

Yeah, climbers have always made mistakes, me included, and, for sure, there will be more accidents today simply because of the fact that there are so many more climbers present. But the notion that 5.8 to 5.10 is a good place to start when learning to lead trad is based on a phenomenal level of ignorance. The Red is especially hazardous because there is so little quality climbing in the lower grades. Places like Seneca have great routes in the 5.0 to 5.6 range. The vast majority of climbers need to start out leading fun, easy to protect routes at the lower end of 5th class. Not much of that in the Red River Gorge.

User avatar
Clevis Hitch
My Name is Joe.
Posts: 1461
Joined: Mon Oct 12, 2009 1:10 pm

Re: Long Wall Ambo

Post by Clevis Hitch » Sat Oct 29, 2011 3:54 pm

well there was this cool trad route on nuts and slings at global but this guy bolted it and now the whole world shows up to "sport it up!". perfectly good waste of a 5.7...
If you give a man a match, he'll be warm for a minute. If you set him on fire, he'll be warm for the rest of his life!

rockrat
Gumby
Gumby
Posts: 1
Joined: Sat Oct 29, 2011 8:49 pm

Re: Long Wall Ambo

Post by rockrat » Sat Oct 29, 2011 9:09 pm

Obviously I can't speak for any other gyms, but at Hoosier Heights we try to be as clear as possible about this. I think it is kind of sad that I have to tell people this, but I guess it is a reality. In fact, we used to have an anchor cleaning station set up where people could practice doing so, but we recently decided to take this down so that someone couldn't be taught how to do it by their friend (who may or may not know the safe and correct way). Now the only way that a person can learn or practice anchor cleaning here is to have "official" instruction by a staff member. It was a tough and in many ways symbolic decision, but there were too many people coming in and trying to teach themselves how to clean after watching a video online. I think this is the reality of the current, younger (18-25) new climber.
And presumably you charge for this as well. It's great that you provide 'professional instruction' for this, but the sad reality, more people are going to opt to learn on some much crappier setup rigged up in a less safe manner, at home, or worse at the crag - away from knowledgeable eyes. Why? Because the vast majority of people that would weigh the cost-benefit analysis of this situation as unfavorable are college students who figure they'll be fine - exactly the demographic you're calling out. Wage earning adults should know better, and have the resources to pay for classes or even guided trips.

Climbers teaching their friends how to do things in the gym is far better - instead of taking it down, you could have policed the station and every time some gumby hopped on and showed their even more gumby friend how to do things you could have stepped in when they made mistakes and potentially saved 2 climbers serious injury. Watching videos online is a great way to learn a great many things, including climbing techniques. Having a local resource where you can practice what you learned online without risking fatal injury and potentially get supervised feedback from more experienced climbers is even better. I doubt the good of the community was as much at the heart of the decision to take it down as profit was...

LK Day
Lame Wade
Lame Wade
Posts: 445
Joined: Mon Aug 09, 2010 9:47 pm

Re: Long Wall Ambo

Post by LK Day » Sun Oct 30, 2011 2:13 am

Uh-oh.

User avatar
pigsteak
The Crocodile Hunter
The Crocodile Hunter
Posts: 9684
Joined: Tue Jun 17, 2003 2:49 pm
Location: Like Prince my name has now changed..please call me Piglovely.

Re: Long Wall Ambo

Post by pigsteak » Sun Oct 30, 2011 9:36 am

Clevis Hitch wrote:well there was this cool trad route on nuts and slings at global but this guy bolted it and now the whole world shows up to "sport it up!". perfectly good waste of a 5.7...

did the bolter steal the nuts and slings?
Positive vibes brah...positive vibes.

dustonian
BANNED
Posts: 3089
Joined: Mon Jul 27, 2009 10:46 am
Location: Lex/Zoe

Re: Long Wall Ambo

Post by dustonian » Sun Oct 30, 2011 11:00 am

If you're talking about Eureka, the FA bolted his own route.

tH1e-swiN1e
Gumby
Gumby
Posts: 76
Joined: Mon Aug 01, 2011 11:23 am
Location: Indianapolis

Re: Long Wall Ambo

Post by tH1e-swiN1e » Sun Oct 30, 2011 12:29 pm

Clevis Hitch wrote:Who hasn't hung themselves out there by being in over there head?

Now you're talking about some govermental body!? You guys keep talking this shit and some politico is going to see a chance to take power and institute policy. You'd better think about what you're saying.

Climbing used to be about the misfits and the cocaine cowboys. Enjoying success in a world that they couldn't get comfortable in.

Now you get these soccer mom types who make sure that everybody gets a trophy and look for someone to sue when shit goes wrong.

The first thing you flat-landers did wrong was to leave Minnisota. You climb in some gym, then come down here and disrespect our rock. (I gota car, lets go race!)Now you're going to spread rumors about the guy who had the balls to climb the rock (on borrowed gear). Then the second fell on a piece,didn't inspect it, just kept climbing like he was at some flat-land gym.His fate was in his own hands!

Fuck you retards, why don't go play in traffic in Minisota!
I agree with everything said here Clevis...... though its Minnesota.

I never understood why the trad guys complain about the bolting of Eureka. As stated above the FA added the bolts. Is it not possible to place gear anymore??
More Altitude, Less Attitude.

Post Reply