Trying to understand the bolter's mind...

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krampus
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Re: Trying to understand the bolter's mind...

Post by krampus » Tue Aug 14, 2012 1:13 pm

piggy - define classic. I would say that the Mother Load is as classic as any crag out there. Its old and it's knows across the world for is volume of quality routs between 12 and 14. It's the meca for narcissistic chuffers for crying out loud. And now its open for gumbies who might be into anal too.
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Re: Trying to understand the bolter's mind...

Post by pumpout2004 » Tue Aug 14, 2012 1:22 pm

might be?
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Re: Trying to understand the bolter's mind...

Post by lena_chita » Tue Aug 14, 2012 1:55 pm

der uber wrote:I don't think the grades of climbs at a crag should have anything to do with deciding whether or not to bolt a new line. The route isn't all that bad. It isn't my style, but I don't mind it being there.

The guy who bolted it is a buddy of mine and he likes vert, slab, techy stuff. It may not get as much love as 8 Ball, but hey, it's there and people can get on it if they choose. Not that big a deal.
I don't mind the route being there, either. Based on the info in the online guidebook, I would not be getting on that route anytime soon, but its' presence certainly doesn't inconvenience me in any way.

But while it is not that big a deal to me, it seems like it IS a much bigger deal for the bolter to actually do all the work. And I was wondering what's the payoff? It's not like the Red is all bolted out and the only new routes to be had are either bad-quality ones, or the squeeze jobs. That's what is behind my initial post.

A bolter could certainly say, well, I can bolt, I bolted this route for myself, because I wanted it, I really love it, and all of you guys who think it is crappy can piss off and go climb something else. This way I am guaranteed to have my favorite route all to myself whenever I want to climb it. I guess that would be a valid reason...

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Re: Trying to understand the bolter's mind...

Post by krampus » Tue Aug 14, 2012 2:01 pm

might be what? The means by which we create a new Roadside. I like the idea, after all, the masses seem to love the mediocrity that already exists there. Lets just find some crappy 7's in the area and tell everyone they are good, it worked for the undertow.
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Re: Trying to understand the bolter's mind...

Post by pigsteak » Tue Aug 14, 2012 2:06 pm

I bolted it to piss off lena chita..she better get on it so the world will know it is a mega classic;)

krampus, surely you jest. I don't think 1 in 50 climbers could say the Lode is a classic or even great area with a straight face. There are a few, very few, ultra classics there but most of the routes are exactly the same. one always manky hold down low, sketchy fixed gear, degraded base, public toilet around the corner, sandy rock, chalk caked holds. just stand at the base and look down the undertow wall....every. single. climb. the same.

I even know some Lex folks who only go to the Lode. for real? you see your brahs at the sweaty sack gym twice a week, do you really need a third fluff fest at the Lode? Bruise brothers puts the Lode to shame.
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Re: Trying to understand the bolter's mind...

Post by pigsteak » Tue Aug 14, 2012 2:07 pm

lol...I see we posted at the same time but you see my point..the undertow wall is waaaaay over rated.
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Re: Trying to understand the bolter's mind...

Post by lena_chita » Tue Aug 14, 2012 2:37 pm

pigsteak wrote:I bolted it to piss off lena chita..she better get on it so the world will know it is a mega classic;)

krampus, surely you jest. I don't think 1 in 50 climbers could say the Lode is a classic or even great area with a straight face. There are a few, very few, ultra classics there but most of the routes are exactly the same. one always manky hold down low, sketchy fixed gear, degraded base, public toilet around the corner, sandy rock, chalk caked holds. just stand at the base and look down the undertow wall....every. single. climb. the same.

I even know some Lex folks who only go to the Lode. for real? you see your brahs at the sweaty sack gym twice a week, do you really need a third fluff fest at the Lode? Bruise brothers puts the Lode to shame.
Without smileys I have a hard time reading sarcasm.

But seriously, tell me if you know ANY traveling climber who climbs 5.12-5.13, who visited the Red for a week, and who DIDN'T go to the Motherlode at least once during their stay?
Regardless of whether you think that the Lode is over-rated, it is widely known to non-local climbers as one of the must-go-to area at the Red to visit, if you are coming to the Red for the first time and climb the grade.

You can't look in the guidebook, see a concentration of highly-rated climbs there, and not go. How many other areas at the Red have as many 4 and 5-star 5.12-5.14s as the Lode? It might all be Ray's plot to keep people away from other areas that are way, way better, but to anyone just getting their info from a guidebook it is a no-brainer, Motherlode is the place to go.

They

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Re: Trying to understand the bolter's mind...

Post by toad857 » Tue Aug 14, 2012 2:45 pm

krampus wrote:
pumpout2004 wrote:much like anal sex, this route is fun until about half way when it starts to get dirty. Then you begin to question what you are doing...but you finish anyway.

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Re: Trying to understand the bolter's mind...

Post by clif » Tue Aug 14, 2012 3:17 pm

pigsteak wrote: I don't think 1 in 50 climbers could say the Lode is a classic or even great area with a straight face.
Pigsteak, you realize that now other people konw what you were thinking?
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Re: Trying to understand the bolter's mind...

Post by der uber » Tue Aug 14, 2012 3:31 pm

lena_chita wrote:
der uber wrote:I don't think the grades of climbs at a crag should have anything to do with deciding whether or not to bolt a new line. The route isn't all that bad. It isn't my style, but I don't mind it being there.

The guy who bolted it is a buddy of mine and he likes vert, slab, techy stuff. It may not get as much love as 8 Ball, but hey, it's there and people can get on it if they choose. Not that big a deal.
I don't mind the route being there, either. Based on the info in the online guidebook, I would not be getting on that route anytime soon, but its' presence certainly doesn't inconvenience me in any way.

But while it is not that big a deal to me, it seems like it IS a much bigger deal for the bolter to actually do all the work. And I was wondering what's the payoff? It's not like the Red is all bolted out and the only new routes to be had are either bad-quality ones, or the squeeze jobs. That's what is behind my initial post.

A bolter could certainly say, well, I can bolt, I bolted this route for myself, because I wanted it, I really love it, and all of you guys who think it is crappy can piss off and go climb something else. This way I am guaranteed to have my favorite route all to myself whenever I want to climb it. I guess that would be a valid reason...
I think he found a line that he thought would make a decent route, and wanted to bolt it. It's an ok line,you should check it out.

Pigsteak there is more variety than you might think on the undertow. You should check those climbs out sometime.

Thanks to the folks out there putting up new climbs for everyone else to enjoy.

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Re: Trying to understand the bolter's mind...

Post by Cromper » Tue Aug 14, 2012 4:10 pm

Jesus Christ go climb some rocks. Who cares if a line is 1star or 5. If something is dirty, clean it up. If there is some Choss on a route, kick it the fuck off. Bring a brush with you to a crag and those 'Choss piles', Might actually turn into something fun to you. People are so babied into climbing now they don't understand the work that goes into you haveing fun with your brahs on the weekend.

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Re: Trying to understand the bolter's mind...

Post by whoneedsfeet » Tue Aug 14, 2012 4:24 pm

But I only want to climb comfortable holds with well defined paths of holds as to turn into as much of a gym as possible. Well that and to flex on the good holds while the women climbers are around.
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Re: Trying to understand the bolter's mind...

Post by clif » Tue Aug 14, 2012 4:29 pm

alright, you've touched a nerve. i don't care if it is a Free. Fucking. Country. ; i care if a route has one star or five, so don't fuck it up. ha, haha.

anyway, i am grateful for all the work put into new routes and humbled by the thoughtful, funny people i meet at the red all the time. but, i understand the original
poster's idea as an expression of concern about quality/aesthetics. it was my concern too about 'naked lunch.' i think most people understand this but on the chance that it is something one learns and needs to be pointed out: grid bolting (or, bolting rock because it's there) is bad. bad style may be more precise or, to be exact, to my elitist buttface. as pigsteak chuffed, mere repetition of monotonous lines sucks. a (bolted) climb that accentuates, discovers, describes, highlights or in some other way involves the rock can be more than a series of holds that move upward. at some point a buttress can reach the point where expression of these lines establishes something new, like what lena was gently suggesting at the Motherlode. Comme Mon frere Terrible la Pig ont dit, it's the points.
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Re: Trying to understand the bolter's mind...

Post by Shamis » Tue Aug 14, 2012 5:44 pm

A nice gradual warmup dramatically increases my success rate on harder routes (and dramatically reduces my injury rate). If I want to do a 12 that day, I typically warm up with 3 routes between 9+ and 11b. A 10a at a crag full of 12's might be worth having even if it is kind of shitty.

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Re: Trying to understand the bolter's mind...

Post by Spikeddem » Tue Aug 14, 2012 9:15 pm

clif wrote:poster's idea as an expression of concern about quality/aesthetics. it was my concern too about 'naked lunch.' i think most people understand this but on the chance that it is something one learns and needs to be pointed out: grid bolting (or, bolting rock because it's there) is bad. bad style may be more precise or, to be exact, to my elitist buttface. as pigsteak chuffed, mere repetition of monotonous lines sucks. a (bolted) climb that accentuates, discovers, describes, highlights or in some other way involves the rock can be more than a series of holds that move upward. at some point a buttress can reach the point where expression of these lines establishes something new, like what lena was gently suggesting at the Motherlode. Comme Mon frere Terrible la Pig ont dit, it's the points.
I think Lena's concern was really just looking for an explanation of the mindset that leads someone to spend the money and the time on a route like this at a cliff that is decades old and has many many other options elsewhere. Most of the answers provided are nullified by the fact that the FA did not include a name. There can be a bit of a circle jerk (warranted though it may be) on this forum when stuff gets re-bolted or put up, and I think it naturally encourages a question like Lena's.

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