Fixed Gear

Access, Rehab Projects, Derbyfests and more...
Post Reply
the midas touch 123
Gumby
Gumby
Posts: 18
Joined: Mon Sep 24, 2012 1:10 am

Re: Fixed Gear

Post by the midas touch 123 » Sat Nov 17, 2012 5:15 pm

climb2core wrote: Seems to be two emerging philosophies:

1.) Be personally aware and responsible and let people organically figure out how to manage...

2.) Be personally aware and responsible and try to figure some ethics that we can agree upon that will help reduce...

climb2core wrote: The intent of this initiative was to find some common ground in the middle that would leave us all safer...


I think a common ground is very attainable and seems to have already been layed out in front of us:

-BE PERSONALLY AWARE AND RESPONSIBLE-

-I to am a NOLS graduate and am a big advocate of all Leave No Trace Policies.
That may be one of the reasons I find traditional climbing to be so appealing.
I do however understand the issues with steep routes, where fixed gear would be of benefit.
That being said, fixed gear is not always a neccesity, but most certainly a luxury.

-In my opinion (which holds little to no value) climbing is never a safe sport.
One can never climb safe. One can however climb smart.
And for me climbing smart means not only inspecting my rope,
but also inspecting all gear that comes in to contact with my rope...
Whether that gear be personal gear, someone's project draws, or a perma-draw...

When I clip gear it is my responsiblility to inspect and determine whether it is wise or not to use.

BE PERSONALLY AWARE AND RESPONSIBLE.
I AM RESPONSIBLE FOR ME, PERIOD.

allah
Went Down On It
Posts: 1443
Joined: Tue Jan 14, 2003 12:10 am

Re: Fixed Gear

Post by allah » Sat Nov 17, 2012 5:59 pm

The red has turned turned into drama central. Take all the permanent draws down and then watch everyone start cleaning through all the new glue ins and wear them out just like they do in frankenjura. There's always gonna be something to bitch about. If someone clips a sharp biner and it cuts their rope it's their fault.

lena_chita
Poser
Poser
Posts: 347
Joined: Sat Oct 11, 2008 5:48 pm

Re: Fixed Gear

Post by lena_chita » Sat Nov 17, 2012 6:38 pm

climb2core wrote:
kafish2 wrote:I have never had much difficulty in checking the draws I am clipping. I have often swapped out a bad draw with a draw from my rack. If I do not feel like donating a draw (ie a route I probably will not return to soon) then I take down the offending draw. Seems pretty simple to me. I don't expect anyone else's gear to be good, that is why i give them a look, and I also do not expect anyone else to keep me safe (except the guy I let hold the other end of the rope). It all seems pretty simple and also places ownership of my actions squarely on my own shoulders.

The problem I see with any solution is that not only does it involve a more complicated process (education, implementation, sustained maintenence) but is also places to some degree the safety of the climber in the community's hands. There is an assumption that if there are draws hung, and especially if there is a tag, that the draws are abiding by the community standard and thus safe. Essentially saying that someone, other than the climber, has checked out these draws lately and deemed then OK.

No matter how this shakes down I will continue to check draws as I climb, but don't expect me to take down any draw that does not look/feel dangerous despite the material with which it is made or how long it may have been on the wall.

If everyone is so fucking good at inspecting gear, then why the hell are there so many truly shitty biners out there?
Because there is no objective way to tell if the 'biner is going to cut your rope on this very fall, of it if is "just getting there" and " needs to be replaced soon".

Let's face it, every person who claims to always inspect every 'biner they clip, and to replace the bad ones, has gone through some variation of the following:"man, this draw is manky! But... I think it is still O.K. right now. Sort of worn, but not an immediate death trap. I'll clip it. I've clipped worse. I am not going to fall here, anyway. I don't have an extra draw on me, bummer. I'll just clip it, and then I'll come back tomorrow and replace it."

In fact, if the whole "remove worn draws and place them on the anchors" becomes common, I foresee some exchanges along the lines of:

person 1: hey, whoever left the draws on Cimb X, those were horrible, I hung them off the anchors

Person 2: Fuck man, what are you smoking? Those were almost brand fucking new. I just hung them yesterday, andf I only had time for one go this morning before my flight, and you freaking ruined it. Maybe you can afford to buy new set of draws every 2 weeks, but I climb on mine for years, and they never killed anyone yet"

Person 3, 4, 5... 1000... rehashing it for 10 pages. :P

tania
eu te amo
Posts: 226
Joined: Mon May 28, 2007 3:16 pm
Location: Torrent, KY

Re: Fixed Gear

Post by tania » Sat Nov 17, 2012 6:49 pm

Y'all still don't get the point.
"Life is a balance of holding on and letting go." ~Keith Urban

User avatar
climb2core
Loser
Loser
Posts: 2224
Joined: Wed Jun 02, 2010 12:04 pm

Re: Fixed Gear

Post by climb2core » Sat Nov 17, 2012 8:54 pm

Tania, you have been drinking Kipp's Koolaid for too long.

User avatar
rjackson
Full of (sh)It
Posts: 928
Joined: Fri Jun 20, 2003 11:26 am
Location: Between a sport and a trad place.

Re: Fixed Gear

Post by rjackson » Sat Nov 17, 2012 11:41 pm

krampus wrote:
rjackson wrote:Yo, Pig! 9 pages in and I haven't killed it... (yet?).
you must work harder
I think you're right...
Pick myself up, stop lookin' back.
Grand Funk Railroad

Spikeddem
Gumby
Gumby
Posts: 188
Joined: Sat Sep 03, 2011 9:08 pm

Re: Fixed Gear

Post by Spikeddem » Sun Nov 18, 2012 12:10 am

Image

Folks at the Midwest's mini-motherlode equivalent get along great with the No Project Draws and No Cleaning Draws rules.

I'm purely just stirring the pot to keep this crazy train going.

User avatar
der uber
Buff Biff the Sausage Monkey
Posts: 1344
Joined: Fri Apr 28, 2006 10:42 pm
Location: en route

Re: Fixed Gear

Post by der uber » Sun Nov 18, 2012 7:55 am

Spikeddem wrote:Image

Folks at the Midwest's mini-motherlode equivalent get along great with the No Project Draws and No Cleaning Draws rules.

I'm purely just stirring the pot to keep this crazy train going.
:roll: yeah that looks dead-up like the motherlode

User avatar
climb2core
Loser
Loser
Posts: 2224
Joined: Wed Jun 02, 2010 12:04 pm

Re: Fixed Gear

Post by climb2core » Sun Nov 18, 2012 10:21 am

allah wrote:The red has turned turned into drama central. Take all the permanent draws down and then watch everyone start cleaning through all the new glue ins and wear them out just like they do in frankenjura. There's always gonna be something to bitch about. If someone clips a sharp biner and it cuts their rope it's their fault.

Of course it is their fault. But it still doesn't reduce the loss and the tragedy. Perhaps you might have a slightly less callous attitude if it is your wife or good friend that misses a sharp edge and pays the consequences.

User avatar
Rotarypwr345704
I said I'd donate $100 to the RRGCC, and nobody posted in the MF thread after I said that
Posts: 393
Joined: Thu Jun 12, 2008 1:27 pm

Re: Fixed Gear

Post by Rotarypwr345704 » Sun Nov 18, 2012 12:03 pm

Everyone is getting all worked up over these draws. But shouldn't we be more worried about those exploding bolts? Piggie, have you been installing those as a joke?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uxtg7raPDYo
I fell for the everyone-shut-up-and-ill-donate-money scheme. -Ray Ellington, guidebook gawd

My name is Sam Douglass and I love to pose for photo shoots holding on to a jug with only one hand (and no feet!) with my best friend Ian.

allah
Went Down On It
Posts: 1443
Joined: Tue Jan 14, 2003 12:10 am

Re: Fixed Gear

Post by allah » Sun Nov 18, 2012 1:37 pm

Put your own draws up and never use the fixed gear that is there, no one that sport climbs harder than 12a in the red can say they never clip fixed great. Its there as an option, put your own draws on and don't use what's there if you want to keep crying about fixed draws.

crazyhair
Gumby
Gumby
Posts: 88
Joined: Wed May 25, 2011 7:36 pm
Location: Wolfe County

Re: Fixed Gear

Post by crazyhair » Sun Nov 18, 2012 2:51 pm

Rotarypwr345704 wrote:Everyone is getting all worked up over these draws. But shouldn't we be more worried about those exploding bolts? Piggie, have you been installing those as a joke?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uxtg7raPDYo
Real trolls make sure they post original content.
crazyhair wrote:I didn't want to make the weekend idiot report- so I took a lesson from this- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uxtg7raPDYo
(http://www.redriverclimbing.com/viewtop ... &start=510) From 11/17/11

Spikeddem
Gumby
Gumby
Posts: 188
Joined: Sat Sep 03, 2011 9:08 pm

Re: Fixed Gear

Post by Spikeddem » Sun Nov 18, 2012 3:06 pm

der uber wrote:
Spikeddem wrote:[image removed, see earlier post][/url]

Folks at the Midwest's mini-motherlode equivalent get along great with the No Project Draws and No Cleaning Draws rules.

I'm purely just stirring the pot to keep this crazy train going.
:roll: yeah that looks dead-up like the motherlode
Looks got nothing to do with it. Grades center around 13b/c and go up to 14c. No cleaning biners, project draws, or permadraws.

User avatar
climb2core
Loser
Loser
Posts: 2224
Joined: Wed Jun 02, 2010 12:04 pm

Re: Fixed Gear

Post by climb2core » Sun Nov 18, 2012 4:09 pm

This is more than about me. If they are there, people will clip them. Think bigger than yourself Kenny ;)

User avatar
pigsteak
The Crocodile Hunter
The Crocodile Hunter
Posts: 9684
Joined: Tue Jun 17, 2003 2:49 pm
Location: Like Prince my name has now changed..please call me Piglovely.

Re: Fixed Gear

Post by pigsteak » Sun Nov 18, 2012 4:11 pm

I can't wait until bolted cracks are the norm and Ian will be back on my side....
Positive vibes brah...positive vibes.

Post Reply