New Main Trail at Muir Valley

Access, Rehab Projects, Derbyfests and more...
weber
Star Trek Kid
Posts: 1017
Joined: Wed Sep 24, 2003 1:44 pm
Location: Indy & Wolfe Co., KY
Contact:

New Main Trail at Muir Valley

Post by weber » Sun Dec 08, 2013 10:44 am

How 176 feet of staircase was built and installed on the new Main Trail in a single day? Recruited the Purdue Outing Club (Liz and Rick's alma mater). 45 skilled, energetic students—many of whom are engineers-to-be. A big THANK YOU to all of those great Purdue kids and to their film crew for this first rate video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cBBWQf1EJs0
Attachments
small pix.gif
Getting started - first section
We cannot change the cards we are dealt, just how we play the hand. - Randy Pausch
None are so old as those who have outlived enthusiasm. - Henry David Thoreau

User avatar
ynp1
still a dumbass
Posts: 1324
Joined: Thu Sep 16, 2004 6:54 pm
Location: Bishop, CA

Re: New Main Trail at Muir Valley

Post by ynp1 » Sun Dec 08, 2013 11:17 pm

That is some cool construction! Looks like they did a great job!

BUT, is that what our (edited because roto is correct, my bad) boy John Muir would build if it was his valley?
Last edited by ynp1 on Mon Dec 09, 2013 9:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I don't have haters, I have fans in denial.

User avatar
Rotarypwr345704
I said I'd donate $100 to the RRGCC, and nobody posted in the MF thread after I said that
Posts: 393
Joined: Thu Jun 12, 2008 1:27 pm

Re: New Main Trail at Muir Valley

Post by Rotarypwr345704 » Mon Dec 09, 2013 1:12 am

ynp1 wrote:That is some cool construction! Looks like they did a great job!

BUT, is that what are boy John Muir would build if it was his valley?
First off, it's *our* boy not "are" boy. Like your name says, you're still a dumbass. Second. How dare you question someone who has given so much to the community! I cannot believe you would do such a thing! If you don't like what they do feel free to not go there! You can go climb on Bob's "open" land instead!
I fell for the everyone-shut-up-and-ill-donate-money scheme. -Ray Ellington, guidebook gawd

My name is Sam Douglass and I love to pose for photo shoots holding on to a jug with only one hand (and no feet!) with my best friend Ian.

weber
Star Trek Kid
Posts: 1017
Joined: Wed Sep 24, 2003 1:44 pm
Location: Indy & Wolfe Co., KY
Contact:

Re: New Main Trail at Muir Valley

Post by weber » Mon Dec 09, 2013 8:15 am

ynp1 wrote:That is some cool construction! Looks like they did a great job!

BUT, is that what are boy John Muir would build if it was his valley?
Over the years, we've all seen what happens in this part of the country to steep trails with heavy traffic. They erode severely, resulting in an eyesore and poor management of the land. Building trails with water bars, rolling dip grading, and lower angles (< 7°) reduces the impact. But, some sections of steep grade—especially those having protruding base rock—don't allow for these trail building techniques.

Stairs have minimal impact on the land. The holes for the posts are the only "intrusion" on the landscape. A simple 32-foot section of 35-degree stairs provides an 18.4-foot elevation change, whereas a 7-degree sloped trail requires chopping up 150 feet of hillside to achieve this same change in elevation. That's about 600 square feet of virgin land removed for a trail right-of-way 4 feet wide. The stair has ten 4 x 4 pressure-treated posts that occupy a total of less than two square feet of land.

Where the stairs have been located in Muir, virtually zero erosion has occurred over the past ten years. Where steep sections of trail exist, some of the erosion is very severe. Over the next couple years, most of these sections will be restored and replaced with stairs.

What would John Muir say? He was well aware of the compromises that need to be made (in the form of trails and stairs) for people to access and enjoy natural places. But he would probably say, "keep those @#$%^ dirtbag climbers outta there." ;-)
We cannot change the cards we are dealt, just how we play the hand. - Randy Pausch
None are so old as those who have outlived enthusiasm. - Henry David Thoreau

toad857
Loser
Loser
Posts: 1691
Joined: Thu Dec 13, 2007 12:31 pm

Re: New Main Trail at Muir Valley

Post by toad857 » Mon Dec 09, 2013 2:32 pm

Image

WDW4
Gumby
Gumby
Posts: 35
Joined: Mon Jun 11, 2012 11:13 pm
Contact:

Re: New Main Trail at Muir Valley

Post by WDW4 » Mon Dec 09, 2013 2:59 pm

The stairs look great!

User avatar
Rotarypwr345704
I said I'd donate $100 to the RRGCC, and nobody posted in the MF thread after I said that
Posts: 393
Joined: Thu Jun 12, 2008 1:27 pm

Re: New Main Trail at Muir Valley

Post by Rotarypwr345704 » Mon Dec 09, 2013 3:08 pm

weber wrote:
ynp1 wrote:That is some cool construction! Looks like they did a great job!

BUT, is that what are boy John Muir would build if it was his valley?
Over the years, we've all seen what happens in this part of the country to steep trails with heavy traffic. They erode severely, resulting in an eyesore and poor management of the land. Building trails with water bars, rolling dip grading, and lower angles (< 7°) reduces the impact. But, some sections of steep grade—especially those having protruding base rock—don't allow for these trail building techniques.

Stairs have minimal impact on the land. The holes for the posts are the only "intrusion" on the landscape. A simple 32-foot section of 35-degree stairs provides an 18.4-foot elevation change, whereas a 7-degree sloped trail requires chopping up 150 feet of hillside to achieve this same change in elevation. That's about 600 square feet of virgin land removed for a trail right-of-way 4 feet wide. The stair has ten 4 x 4 pressure-treated posts that occupy a total of less than two square feet of land.

Where the stairs have been located in Muir, virtually zero erosion has occurred over the past ten years. Where steep sections of trail exist, some of the erosion is very severe. Over the next couple years, most of these sections will be restored and replaced with stairs.

What would John Muir say? He was well aware of the compromises that need to be made (in the form of trails and stairs) for people to access and enjoy natural places. But he would probably say, "keep those @#$%^ dirtbag climbers outta there." ;-)
That was the best Fuck you I've ever heard/read. Thank you for that!
I fell for the everyone-shut-up-and-ill-donate-money scheme. -Ray Ellington, guidebook gawd

My name is Sam Douglass and I love to pose for photo shoots holding on to a jug with only one hand (and no feet!) with my best friend Ian.

JeffCastro
Gumby
Gumby
Posts: 84
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2006 12:30 am
Location: lexington

Re: New Main Trail at Muir Valley

Post by JeffCastro » Mon Dec 09, 2013 9:15 pm

Like fish in a barrel. Nice shot Rick.

User avatar
ynp1
still a dumbass
Posts: 1324
Joined: Thu Sep 16, 2004 6:54 pm
Location: Bishop, CA

Re: New Main Trail at Muir Valley

Post by ynp1 » Mon Dec 09, 2013 9:36 pm

This fish is still swimming...

You are right Ricky, he would say keep those shitbag climbers out of there and PRESERVE the land. I am not a preservationist, so I think what you did was cool and I complimented the work of the crew you had.

But this valley is very far from being A valley john would be proud of... Building bigger parking areas so more people can come climb each day, shitters, soft grades, closely spaced bolts, radios, heli pads, and the list goes on... Like the saying goes, if you build it they will come... And they will come in thousands of climbers a year. Good luck preserving your land with that traffic...

Muir Valley is the worst name you could have given to your area. You represent nothing that the name sake stood for, or at least not in practice.

And the fish swims on...
I don't have haters, I have fans in denial.

dustonian
BANNED
Posts: 3089
Joined: Mon Jul 27, 2009 10:46 am
Location: Lex/Zoe

Re: New Main Trail at Muir Valley

Post by dustonian » Mon Dec 09, 2013 11:04 pm

More of a slimy invertebrate lost in the mud than a fish. How sad it must be for you to be so bitter and so ignorant at the same time.

Muir was vehemently opposed to the exploitation of natural resources by industry for the sake of profit, but he was a strong advocate of recreational access to natural areas for everyone to promote public appreciation and respect of nature. The Webers have done exactly that with their property, and in a highly sustainable fashion. Here are a few words from Muir himself that contradict your absurd presumptions of what Muir Valley's "name sake stood for":

"Thousands of tired, nerve-shaken, over-civilized people are beginning to find out that going to the mountains is going home; that wildness is necessity; that mountain parks and reservations are useful not only as fountains of timber and irrigating rivers, but as fountains of life."

“Climb the mountains and get their good tidings.”

“Let children walk with Nature, let them see the beautiful blendings and communions of death and life, their joyous inseparable unity, as taught in woods and meadows, plains and mountains and streams of our blessed star, and they will learn that death is stingless indeed, and as beautiful as life.”

Steve_RRG
Gumby
Gumby
Posts: 37
Joined: Sat Feb 06, 2010 8:35 pm

Re: New Main Trail at Muir Valley

Post by Steve_RRG » Mon Dec 09, 2013 11:06 pm

You can preserve it and not allow anyone to use and enjoy it or try to reach a balance. Perhaps you have seen Yosemite Valley, John Muir's love, filled with grocery stores, restaurants, hotels, post office, roads and parking lots. Not to mention millions of visitors each year. Perhaps eliminating the human race is a decent option. Or perhaps just leave a few special climbers to run the planet.

toad857
Loser
Loser
Posts: 1691
Joined: Thu Dec 13, 2007 12:31 pm

Re: New Main Trail at Muir Valley

Post by toad857 » Tue Dec 10, 2013 10:18 am

ynp1 wrote:This fish is still swimming...
... A spiteful fish. With a bruised ego.

WDW4
Gumby
Gumby
Posts: 35
Joined: Mon Jun 11, 2012 11:13 pm
Contact:

Re: New Main Trail at Muir Valley

Post by WDW4 » Tue Dec 10, 2013 10:23 am

Good post there dustonian, love those quotes. A few more quotes come to mind:

"Everybody needs beauty as well as bread, places to play in and pray in, where nature may heal and give strength to body and soul alike."

"One touch of nature makes all the world kin."

To ynp1 and anyone who shares his views:
1. Criticism coming from a climber, aimed at a hardworking and generous provider of a fantastic natural area open to climbers, doesn't hold much weight.
2. Even if it did, it doesn't sound like you have read any John Muir. One half of his philosophy was reverence for nature - the other half was seeing the importance of people getting out into nature.
3. There are a variety of ways to accomplish that goal, a continuum of preserving nature and making it accessible. If you want to dictate how that is done, go buy some land. Then you will have authority to manage it. You might have a better way to manage Muir Valley, but you don't have Muir Valley.

Steve_RRG
Gumby
Gumby
Posts: 37
Joined: Sat Feb 06, 2010 8:35 pm

Re: New Main Trail at Muir Valley

Post by Steve_RRG » Tue Dec 10, 2013 11:03 am

ynp1 wrote:This fish is still swimming...

Building bigger parking areas so more people can come climb each day, shitters, soft grades, closely spaced bolts, radios, heli pads, and the list goes on...

And the fish swims on...
I suppose it's better to have everyone crapping on the ground. A nice mess with hundreds of visitors daily.
Subtract a couple of grades from the rating when you finish the climb. Ratings vary from area to area anyhow.
Closely spaced bolts? Don't use them.

Nice to see a few posts taking the other side on this as well.

Lateralus
925 Challenged
Posts: 937
Joined: Thu Oct 24, 2002 6:14 pm
Location: far from "THE" sandstone

Re: New Main Trail at Muir Valley

Post by Lateralus » Tue Dec 10, 2013 11:33 am

the stairs look great, would be cool to use such an army to build trail, our little band of about 1/2 dozen does some amazing work but that would take us several weekends, one day wow! As you mentioned erosion will be hugely diminshed with those in place and less ground will be damaged in the long run by far.

Don't sweat the haters, no matter whatcha do someone will be pissed off about it. With such a purist attitude, I assume that guy bikes to the Gorge and is using his buddy's computer/electronics to submit his steaming pile er perspective in order to have no carbon footprint / ahdere to his ethics, when you throw stones you better not live in a glass house dumbass!
"Good things take time, impossible things take a little longer"
Percy Gerutty

Post Reply