Who would volunteer to save the hemlocks?

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Shannon
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Re: Who would volunteer to save the hemlocks?

Post by Shannon » Fri May 09, 2014 12:38 pm

Mike, I camp on the PMRP regularly (even since before we purchased) including four times this year, and so far every time we have camped we have been happy to hear the whip-poor-will's song at dusk :D

I am not saying that whip-poor-will's numbers have not declined or for what reason but I thought you would be happy to know their beautiful song can still be heard...loud and strong, too loud sometimes; we can't even go to sleep until they are done singing...at least on the PMRP.

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Re: Who would volunteer to save the hemlocks?

Post by TradMike » Fri May 09, 2014 4:29 pm

Thanks for the reply. It is good to hear they are still around. The first time I ever camped in the gorge was back at Military Wall in 1990 and I heard them most of the night. I won't ever forget it and I can still hear it clear as day. I just have not heard them in a long time.

I hope a few of the mighty hemlocks are saved. They would be missed for sure. You definitely feel their presence when you climb by one and they are all over. They would definitely leave a huge void if gone.

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Re: Who would volunteer to save the hemlocks?

Post by clif » Fri May 09, 2014 5:36 pm

TradMike wrote:They would be missed for sure. You definitely feel their presence when you climb by one and they are all over. They would definitely leave a huge void if gone.
like on Pine at roadside?
training is for people who care, i have a job.

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Re: Who would volunteer to save the hemlocks?

Post by gravitycoach » Sun May 11, 2014 12:10 pm

Well, now that I've clicked a few of the previous links and done some reading, the web, in it's infinite wisdom, has decided to send me that direction for entertainment and edification. It appears that there is more than a little disagreement in the severity/extent of neonicitinoid's role in CCD and bee populations in general. Additionally, data from the USDA seems to show that colony count and production numbers continue to increase. I will not pretend to be an expert nor do I believe that the current prevalent use of pesticides is a good thing but it does seem that there is a good argument to be made for trying to save the hemlocks we can as long as there is some common sense used along the way with respect to safety and proper application protocols. Below are a couple more links to some studies and comments that seem to dispute the more "arrmegeddon-ish" stories out there.

http://www.scientificamerican.com/artic ... ive-lives/

http://www.forbes.com/sites/jonentine/2 ... think-ban/
Last edited by gravitycoach on Mon May 12, 2014 5:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Who would volunteer to save the hemlocks?

Post by TradMike » Mon May 12, 2014 9:02 am

This seems to be the safest way to administer the insecticide. Seems like most of the insecticide will stay in the tree until it breaks down and not harming anything else. The quick jet system seems pretty quick to treat a lot of trees.
http://shop.arborjet.com/ProductDetails ... e=070-0010
http://shop.arborjet.com/ProductDetails ... 070%2D0035
http://shop.arborjet.com/ProductDetails ... e=070-2250
http://www.arborjet.com/post/hemlock_woolly_adelgid/
http://shop.arborjet.com/ProductDetails ... tCode=0005

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Re: Who would volunteer to save the hemlocks?

Post by bcircell » Mon May 12, 2014 12:39 pm

This seemed both relevant, and timely.

http://www.bulletinofinsectology.org/pd ... -130lu.pdf

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Corona
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Re: Who would volunteer to save the hemlocks?

Post by Corona » Mon May 12, 2014 3:37 pm

|
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Above study discussed here: http://www.iflscience.com/plants-and-an ... secticides

TradMike wrote:This seems to be the safest way to administer the insecticide. Seems like most of the insecticide will stay in the tree until it breaks down and not harming anything else. The quick jet system seems pretty quick to treat a lot of trees.
http://shop.arborjet.com/ProductDetails ... e=070-0010
http://shop.arborjet.com/ProductDetails ... 070%2D0035
http://shop.arborjet.com/ProductDetails ... e=070-2250
http://www.arborjet.com/post/hemlock_woolly_adelgid/
http://shop.arborjet.com/ProductDetails ... tCode=0005

Mauget capsules require less training, are cheaper, and cause less damage to trees (as there is no pressure-induced trauma to tissues) I do like the Arborjet, but it requires training and the operator spends a fair amount of time repairing it when it malfunctions.
Last edited by Corona on Tue May 13, 2014 8:59 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Who would volunteer to save the hemlocks?

Post by whatahutch » Mon May 12, 2014 6:41 pm

Is this what we want the Red to look like in little while? http://www.nativetreesociety.org/tsuga/ ... finale.htm
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Re: Who would volunteer to save the hemlocks?

Post by Rotarypwr345704 » Mon May 12, 2014 10:35 pm

All trolling aside, am I the only one who thinks that mother nature did a damn fine job taking care of things before (and during) we showed up? Why do we have this obsession in this country that death is a terrible, unnatural thing? In the same way that fires can be "healthy" for ecological areas, is it too much of a stretch to think that this is just another way of doing the same job? Cite all the studies and theories you want, but bottom line is if we did nothing, would life cease to exist there forever? I'm not a betting man, but I'm going to go ahead and say no... I mean capsules, soil injections, trunk injections, special training, talk of pressure-induced trauma to tissues of trees. REALLY?

And I'm sure that somebody is going to pull up some study about how we, as humans are the ones responsible for this invasive species, or growth, or whatever title you want to give it and how WE MUST ACT! But where there is death and destruction sprouts life, and typically stronger than ever. Why don't we let the entity that has been charged with Earth's care for the last millions of years step up to bat on this one?
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Re: Who would volunteer to save the hemlocks?

Post by Rick » Tue May 13, 2014 12:09 am

Thank you everyone for the thoughtful discussion.
As Shannon mentioned, the Hemlock Woolly Adelgid is a big problem. We have seen the effect of the HWA not only in the RRG, but in every forest in the southeast. The HWA sucks.

WHAT’S ABOUT TO HAPPEN?
The HWA slowly kills 100% of all the hemlocks in an area. In places further south like the Great Smoky Mountains National Park, huge stands of hemlocks have been decimated. It’s ugly when all the trees are dead and grey. Look at the link that whatahutch posted. After the tree dies, it just stands there for a few years looking all ugly until the wind knocks it down. When the tree dies, the suckle really starts. It will take a ton of work to keep the widow makers clear from the top and lots of chain saw work to keep the trails clear. Carrying chainsaws to the cliff everyday will definitely suck. After roots decay, wholesale erosion kicks in. That’s gonna suck too. The trails will turn to mud slides. Overall, the area will be more arid. There will be no more shade from the hemlocks. Sure, hardwoods might grow fill in where the hemlocks were, but if that happens it’ll take about 50 to 100 years. Mostly it will suck for us, the climbers.

TREATMENT AT OBED
At the Obed the East Tennessee Climbers Coalition worked with land owners (National Park Service and Nature Conservancy) and corporate sponsors (Nissan and Eastman Chemical) to try to prevent the wholesale destruction mentioned above. We made a plan, selected areas to be treated and have treated over 1500 trees in the last 3 years with imidacloprid. The ETCC has made the treatment a part of our annual trail day in September. The NPS is treating year-round and has treated even more trees than the volunteers. Frankly, we don’t even know if it is going to work, but the research literature seems positive. The climbers have made the long-term commitment to this project. Because until a better treatment is discovered we know that we will have to retreat the trees about every 5 years. A big effort however, the alternative seems worse.

SMALL EFFORT
The effort and cost to save one tree isn’t so huge: a soluable package of chemical and a bit of water. Measure the tree with a special ruler (Biltmore stick), then while using latex gloves and goggles, pour the right amount of solution into the ground under the duft. No biggie. Each tree might take 5 minutes but a good crew of 4 can probably do it in 3. Each tree treated is going to cost about $5.

HUGE EFFORT
There are literally thousands of hemlocks to be treated in the RRG climbing areas It will take a huge effort and a lot of money to treat areas the size of the PMRP, MFRP, or Muir Valley. Both the Muir Valley and Torrent has received a treatment, Those efforts were not easy, nor cheap. Ask Rick or Liz, or Bob. Ask Ginny (steep4me), she was the leader of the treatment day at Torrent.
We need volunteers to do the treatment (that’s the glory job).

However before and after the day of the treatment a lot of planning is required (that’s the thankless job).
There are a bunch of questions that have to be answered:
What trees are going to be selected for treatment? (probably not all of ‘em are going to be treated)
How are you going to mark the trees that have been treated? (We are gonna need a specific color of paint to indicate what year the treatment was done)
How are you going to get all that water to the area where the treatment is going to happen?
Where are you going to get the money for the chemical? Grants will need to be written. Companies must be called hands shook. Shannon mentioned Toyota. Maybe . . .
It’s a lot of area to cover, so several event days need to be decided.
People need to be arranged. Do we need a t-shirt for the event? A logo? Who’s getting the gloves? OMG . . . how are we gonna get prizes? Do we really need prizes? Oh no, someone got bit by a freakin ___________ (insert animal here).

WHO WOULD VOLUNTEER TO SAVE THE HEMLOCK
The coalition is working on several projects. Rocktoberfest to pay the mortgage for the MFRP, bad ass new parking lots, great new trails, even training programs for new leaders to make great new trails. Not to mention all the complex things that make an organization go. a website, long meetings, a paypal site, facebook, outreach to the Forest Service and community (more meetings), taxes must be filed, by-laws and grants written, details of the joint membership with the Access Fund to hammer out, deeds to examine, volunteers to organize, not to mention some long telephone calls.

Like Shannon, personally I would love to see the RRGCC start a similar activity. However I guess this project is going to be hard for the Coalition to take on. It is going to require some meetings.

Shannon’s title of this thread is correct but it is missing 1 point. It’s not just who is going to volunteer, it’s who’s gonna lead the effort to save the hemlock? If the hemlocks are going to be saved, someone has to be in charge. The RRG is in need of a leader to step up for this and it‘s gonna be a HUGE project.

Sooo . . . .Wanna make an impact? Own it. Get your team of your friends together and do this thing. Apply for a grant. Contact a company who might pay for it. Get turned down, try another company; eventually someone might pony up. If not, don’t worry. Start a kickstarter. Take donations. Buy a bunch of imidacloprid (about $5 / tree), make a plan, discuss it with the RRGCC or land owners (if the planning is thorough, you’re not gonna get a lot of resistance), and implement it. Wanna be that leader? There is no pay for this big job but drop me a line (contact me through this site). I am happy to help give some advice on how to get started and how to proceed based on what we have already done.

smile
rick

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Corona
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Re: Who would volunteer to save the hemlocks?

Post by Corona » Tue May 13, 2014 9:03 am

Thanks, Rick. If you need any help with planning (tree selection/evaluation, marking protocols, GIS mapping, databasing, etc.) I'm happy to help.

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Re: Who would volunteer to save the hemlocks?

Post by Ascentionist » Tue May 13, 2014 11:33 am

I'm in. And I'm local, though I know little about all of this and have a lot of irons in the fire right now.

I'll do my best to be at meetings and I can help with mapping, applying, etc, etc.

If not us then who?
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Re: Who would volunteer to save the hemlocks?

Post by TradMike » Tue May 13, 2014 12:36 pm

Scientist are trying to mass produce the known predators of the wolly adelgid. Unfortunately, they have not been able to find a diet other then wooly adelgid so they can easily mass produce the Sasajiscymnus. The Scymnus Sinaunodulus died after release. The Laricobius Nigrinus is showing some promise and they have found a few other similar species currently under study.

Natural Predators
Sasajiscymnus tsugae (Japan)
http://www.biocontrol.entomology.cornel ... ymnus.html
Scymnus sinuanodulus (China)
http://www.nrs.fs.fed.us/disturbance/in ... uanodulus/
Laricobius nigrinus (Western North America)
http://biocontrolfornature.ucr.edu/pdf/ ... edator.pdf

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Re: Who would volunteer to save the hemlocks?

Post by DriskellHR » Tue May 13, 2014 7:33 pm

Your just too sexy for you own good ain't ya rick? Thanks for the details dood
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Re: Who would volunteer to save the hemlocks?

Post by climb2core » Tue May 13, 2014 10:24 pm

Ascentionist wrote:If not us then who?
Do some searching for nature/conservationist groups and expand beyond the climbing community. Tree hugging is in vogue these days...

http://naturepreserves.ky.gov/news/Pres ... mlocks.pdf

https://www.facebook.com/kyhemlocks

http://www.knlt.org/

"Landowners who want information about the hemlock woolly adelgid or help treating trees may call Alice Mandt or Jody Thompson at (502) 564-4496, or email [email protected]."
http://www.kentucky.com/2014/04/27/3215 ... -urge.html

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