Graining Fork Nature Preserve

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aaronkupferer
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Graining Fork Nature Preserve

Post by aaronkupferer » Sat Jun 06, 2015 9:13 am

A couple of years ago... I talked openly in conversation regarding the issues surrounding the closure of Roadside, just like everyone else in the climbing community. I visited for the first time last Sunday since it's reopening (which I support, seeing it as a step in the right direction).
The following day I received an email. The manager, John Haight, told me I was not welcome back. After having to prod for an explanation, he finally said it was because he heard I was "openly critical and unsupportive." He failed to reply to my attempt to open a conversation.
I've never met the guy, but it seems if he doesn't like what you've said he will ban you from his property. Be warned, I guess..?

C'est la vie. And be careful out there!

Also, I want to go on the record as saying: I love everything about Torrent Falls!

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tbwilsonky
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Re: Graining Fork Nature Preserve

Post by tbwilsonky » Sat Jun 06, 2015 2:39 pm

I've met John once at Cold Cave near Morehead. Seemed like a nice enough fellow. Maybe this is just a misunderstanding?

Hopefully you can get it cleared up as you're probably strong enough to project Ro Shampo this season.
haunted.

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caribe
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Re: Graining Fork Nature Preserve

Post by caribe » Sat Jun 06, 2015 11:00 pm

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Last edited by caribe on Mon Jun 08, 2015 10:59 am, edited 1 time in total.

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krampus
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Re: Graining Fork Nature Preserve

Post by krampus » Mon Jun 08, 2015 9:37 am

yet those jackholes who do not get passes and bring their dogs keep coming back.....
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milspecmark
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Re: Graining Fork Nature Preserve

Post by milspecmark » Mon Jun 08, 2015 10:41 am

I have net John a couple times at Roadside. He is a very nice individual, who puts up with alot of crap. On this particular day, someone was in his face because he asked the guy with no permit and a dog to leave. My guess is that he deals with alot of disrespect and prob. just gets tired of it. I do my best to remind the people without permits that they could be prosecuted for trespassing. It really is in our best interest to follow John's wishes and help police the property for John if we want continued access.

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caribe
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Re: Graining Fork Nature Preserve

Post by caribe » Mon Jun 08, 2015 11:11 am

Given this information:
Graining Fork Nature Preserve Donation (the minimum transaction fee is 2.9% + $0.30 per transaction)
If you contribute $0.x, your contribution costs them $0.x-0.30. At some point low contributions become insulting.
Put yourself in the owner's shoes; how would you feel? If you don't think you can leave at least $5.00, I guess my opinion is that you should just still consider the place closed. Torrent also has a contribution box. If you want to climb there and all you have is beer money, give up beer.

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Re: Graining Fork Nature Preserve

Post by tactless » Mon Jun 15, 2015 12:07 pm

He got banned because he didn't "donate" enough money? Really? How do you know this? There was nothing in his original post that said that was the reason. But let's say it WAS the reason - since that makes for a more fun discussion.

1. If a donation is required, it's no longer a donation. That's called a fee.

donation - an act or instance of presenting something as a gift, grant, or contribution - http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/donation
fee - a sum paid or charged for a privilege: - http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/fee?s=t

2. If the owner wants to charge $X, he should specify that amount - not ban people that go under that mysterious amount. How do you know the amount is $5 carbie? And what happens if he decides to raise the hidden bar next year and he wants, say, a $6 "donation." Then you would be banned too according to your post because your donation is now unacceptably low.

3. Fee climbing IS legal in KY - but it sure is a slippery slope to charge for climbing (after all, if you ban people for giving too little that is certainly a charge) and then try to call it a "donation." I'm not a lawyer, but I bet I could win that case.
caribe wrote:Given this information:
Graining Fork Nature Preserve Donation (the minimum transaction fee is 2.9% + $0.30 per transaction)
If you contribute $0.x, your contribution costs them $0.x-0.30. At some point low contributions become insulting.
Put yourself in the owner's shoes; how would you feel? If you don't think you can leave at least $5.00, I guess my opinion is that you should just still consider the place closed. Torrent also has a contribution box. If you want to climb there and all you have is beer money, give up beer.

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caribe
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Re: Graining Fork Nature Preserve

Post by caribe » Mon Jun 15, 2015 12:36 pm

I am not saying he got banned for not donating. I don't know anything about the donation amount. I think people might be inclined to ask for a pass and skip the donation. I am just saying that we should put ourselves in the owner's shoes when we are asking for a pass.
tactless wrote:He got banned because he didn't "donate" enough money? Really? How do you know this? There was nothing in his original post that said that was the reason. But let's say it WAS the reason - since that makes for a more fun discussion.

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caribe
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Re: Graining Fork Nature Preserve

Post by caribe » Mon Jun 15, 2015 12:38 pm

How do you know the amount is $5 caribe?
Because this is the minimum suggested donation amount on the site.

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caribe
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Re: Graining Fork Nature Preserve

Post by caribe » Mon Jun 15, 2015 12:41 pm

what happens if he decides to raise the hidden bar next year and he wants, say, $6
well at some point I would go much less frequently. Let's put my visitation frequency into perspective. The last time I was at Roadside was with a crew to clean shit up with the owner's permission shortly after closure.

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caribe
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Re: Graining Fork Nature Preserve

Post by caribe » Mon Jun 15, 2015 12:45 pm

I'm not a lawyer, but I bet I could win that case.
The owner likely is keeping an electronic log from which it can be shown that no donation is required to enter Roadside. I don't think any lawyer could win this case. The financial structure here and access to the property for recreation activities look more like Muir Valley than Six Flags.

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caribe
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Re: Graining Fork Nature Preserve

Post by caribe » Mon Jun 15, 2015 12:49 pm

I hope people don't misunderstand me here. I am not promoting or denigrating this structure for recreational land access. I can state flatly that the current situation is far better than outright closure. It may also make Roadside less popular, which was the original problem from the point of view of the land owner(s).

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caribe
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Re: Graining Fork Nature Preserve

Post by caribe » Mon Jun 15, 2015 12:52 pm

BTW: I erased my first comment because I don't know shit. My second comment is general and not specific to this case. I still am ignorant about what is going on, but it is a general comment that I think I can make by just imagining I am the land owner.

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krampus
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Re: Graining Fork Nature Preserve

Post by krampus » Mon Jun 15, 2015 1:02 pm

Caribe, I believe your only problem was writing above a 7th grade reading level. They lost you at x
How you compare may not be as important as to whom you are compared

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Re: Graining Fork Nature Preserve

Post by KD » Mon Jun 29, 2015 5:34 pm

Whenever you travel you are supposed to appreciate the local culture.
Last edited by KD on Thu Jul 02, 2015 5:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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