Attention New School climbers

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J-Ru
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Re: Attention New School climbers

Post by J-Ru » Wed Oct 28, 2015 2:36 pm

Aside from the superiority and anger in the OP, there are real issues that are highlighted by the busy season.

We ALL should be practicing what we preach and gently passing on to those new to the outdoors, or those who may need a friendly reminder, the core messages in the following Access Fund initiatives. I realize we all may not agree on every point in The Pact or how to behave at the crag, but these three pieces are good, non-confrontational starting points.

This has all been said before. Hell, print them and hand them out at the crag if you really want to educate people...

Ask yourself if you are following these?

5 TIPS FOR CLIMBING IN GROUPS
Rolling six deep to the crag this weekend? Before you head out, know that climbing in large groups can have a much greater environmental and social impact than climbing in pairs. If you must climb in a large group, follow these 5 tips to minimize your impact:

Carpool - Instead of meeting up at the crag where parking is limited, grab some extra time with your climbing partners by carpooling to minimize your impact.
Get organized - Plan ahead to avoid bringing unnecessary gear and pads that will clutter up the base of the climb, causing erosion and crushed vegetation. Keep your gear organized and place it on durable surfaces, never on plants or roots.
Share the love - Be respectful of other visitors and don’t bogart an entire area by hanging ropes and blocking travel lanes. Forcing people to walk around your group causes social trails and erosion. Once you’re done with a climb, pull your rope and move on.
Keep it tight - We all love to watch someone in our crew send, but the landscape around most crags and boulders is sensitive and should be left untrampled. If you’re on the ground watching, stay in the staging area so that you’re not spreading your impact.
Be an upstander, not a bystander - Social science proves that when people witness others practicing minimum impact behavior they are more likely to follow suit. This becomes especially important for large groups. Step up and lead by example--leave the least impact possible.
https://www.accessfund.org/take-action/ ... o-the-pact
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https://www.accessfund.org/uploads/pdf/ ... 2-copy.pdf
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Cocoapuffs1000
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Re: Attention New School climbers

Post by Cocoapuffs1000 » Wed Oct 28, 2015 3:12 pm

milspecmark wrote: Also motivates me to climb harder and become better so I can get on the routes no one else is on on a busy day.
I hate to be a downer, but that's not really true at the Red anymore. When the weather is good at the Red, you can expect lines on ALL the classics, no matter how hard they are. Go to Drive By on a nice day and all the good 12's and 13's will be taken.

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Re: Attention New School climbers

Post by nik » Wed Oct 28, 2015 6:33 pm

dear op, you respect the grades that sport climbers are putting up but you "hate" sport climbing? seems like a weird thing to hate. like, for instance, i hate inequality, intolerance, racism, rape, and suffering in the world. also, nuts in brownies. fuck that. but, sport climbing? why do you hate sport climbing?

will
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Re: Attention New School climbers

Post by will » Wed Oct 28, 2015 8:11 pm

J-Ru tanks for posting the links and posters ..

nik.. i respect people that can climb better/harder than me .. but it stops at their ability not their attitude, egos
slang, disrespect for the environment. I dont know how we went from banning pitons to drilling bolts where ever
one pleases. Onsighting used to be with no gear placed .. now.. apparently.. you can onsight with pre placed draws
or better yet .. now it's possible on top rope. Sporto's keep changing the "rules" to look stronger/cooler than they really are.
when i started i loved the line " sport climbing is neither" .. and i still love it.

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Re: Attention New School climbers

Post by JR » Wed Oct 28, 2015 8:36 pm

This may or may not help you angry Will
will wrote:why the fuck are you leaving ropes up?!???

Rope up or rope down. Makes no difference to me. If your not there I am climbing.

No one cares that you lead "Eureka" ..
Agreed. Just like no one cares that you ever get on it.
Are you leaving it up to top rope it later ?

Maybe.
why do you think anyone would want
to climb on your draws?
This one is really confusing because I love climbing on other peoples draws. First off you don't have to carry them up there. Secondly wears on their equipment not yours. Lastly, you don't usually have to clean them. So nice. Try this..."Thank you for putting up draws."
And trad gear placed? I get to the base of "whiteout" some asshole has trad gear plugged.. why would you leave your gear?
it's the best 5.8 in the area .. do you think no one will want to get on it on a saturday ? OH you left
your gear in so your buddy could lead it
I think you may have just blown a gasket or something on this one. They are just climbing the way they want to. Get over it. Not everyone is going to climb your way.
if you are climbing where other people are in view and your climb has a star .. chances are
someone wants to LEAD it .. lead .. the goal of climbing.
people climb outside to lead.
I sort of agree with you here just because Top Roping is barely climbing to me. But again I wouldn't dream of trying to dictate other peoples climbing.

By all means let off some steam here though. I would much rather you vent online than having you raving about my draws being on a climb all day.

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Re: Attention New School climbers

Post by monty4355 » Thu Oct 29, 2015 8:04 am

will wrote:J-Ru tanks for posting the links and posters ..

nik.. i respect people that can climb better/harder than me .. but it stops at their ability not their attitude, egos
slang, disrespect for the environment. I dont know how we went from banning pitons to drilling bolts where ever
one pleases. Onsighting used to be with no gear placed .. now.. apparently.. you can onsight with pre placed draws
or better yet .. now it's possible on top rope. Sporto's keep changing the "rules" to look stronger/cooler than they really are.
when i started i loved the line " sport climbing is neither" .. and i still love it.
Sounds like another old traddy crawled out of the woods during the busiest time of the year and tried to climb at a popular crag. I suggest this, find a crag with a long approach and only one good route and go there! Guaranteed to be alone.

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Re: Attention New School climbers

Post by will » Thu Oct 29, 2015 3:59 pm

the new school mentality ....
1)just avoid that problem it will get better.
2) make yourself look better by belittling the OP and avoid the issue

Like i said i've never saw a bigger bunch of pussies.
monty4355 wrote:
Sounds like another old traddy crawled out of the woods during the busiest time of the year and tried to climb at a popular crag. I suggest this, find a crag with a long approach and only one good route and go there! Guaranteed to be alone.
Lateralus wrote:will, you sound like a rude asshole and you likely know it but in case you weren't sure.
You also sound dumb as the rock you live under.
There are rude people pretty much everywhere, driving, restaurants, on the trail
, movie theater, everywhere... I've never seen hostile confrontations go well in any scenario
with those folks either. Yelling at them doesn't actually make them stand down
or all of a sudden become respectful, it just escalates a bad situation ,guess your mother didn't teach you that.
Also, you don't own the rock those toolbags can do whatever they want , they aren't breaking any laws.
Courtesy is nice but 1/2 the people don't have it and it's been that
way for a long time. Take up a new sport before you give yourself
an aneurysm, mma might be good for you and us.

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Re: Attention New School climbers

Post by EricDorsey » Thu Oct 29, 2015 4:14 pm

will wrote:the new school mentality ....
1)just avoid that problem it will get better.
2) make yourself look better by belittling the OP and avoid the issue

Like i said i've never saw a bigger bunch of pussies.
Go climb someplace else then, you come off as a crusty old timer and your ego is actually way worse than the people you are criticising. Like JR said most people are comfortable climbing on other peoples draws and everyone doesnt need to conform to YOUR style of acceptable climbing, things change and its not 1982 anymore. Onsighting with draws hung has been normal practice for at least the last 2 decades, where have you been?

No one is avoiding the issue, and I am not defending the climbers you encountered, its just that you are being a gigantic cry baby. So stop crying that the gumby 5.6 route was busy during the busiest time of the year and learn to make better crag choices if you want solitude.

will
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Re: Attention New School climbers

Post by will » Thu Oct 29, 2015 8:22 pm

EricDorsey wrote:
Go climb someplace else then, you come off as a crusty old timer and your ego is actually way worse than the people you are criticising. Like JR said most people are comfortable climbing on other peoples draws and everyone doesnt need to conform to YOUR style of acceptable climbing, things change and its not 1982 anymore. Onsighting with draws hung has been normal practice for at least the last 2 decades, where have you been?

No one is avoiding the issue, and I am not defending the climbers you encountered, its just that you are being a gigantic cry baby. So stop crying that the gumby 5.6 route was busy during the busiest time of the year and learn to make better crag choices if you want solitude.
im not pissed that people were there climbing .. im pissed because they weren't climbing. ropes are up and no one is around! "im leaving this rope up so people see that i'm a bad ass that can lead 5.10" it's either pride or laziness .. which is it ?

since when is polite and courteous a climbing style ?

ego? i've been stuck at 5.9 trad for years .. why would i have an ego ?

EricDorsey
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Re: Attention New School climbers

Post by EricDorsey » Thu Oct 29, 2015 10:00 pm


im not pissed that people were there climbing .. im pissed because they weren't climbing. ropes are up and no one is around! "im leaving this rope up so people see that i'm a bad ass that can lead 5.10" it's either pride or laziness .. which is it ?

since when is polite and courteous a climbing style ?

ego? i've been stuck at 5.9 trad for years .. why would i have an ego ?
Its neither pride or laziness, its probably just new climbers who don't realize its poor etiquite and were thinking one of their friends would get on it evenutally.... Ask them to pull the rope or if no one is around pull it and climb the route and maybe put the rope back when youre done and move on with your life. Why does a rope hanging in the woods cause you such personal anguish?

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Re: Attention New School climbers

Post by Lateralus » Fri Oct 30, 2015 10:27 am

Actually, you didn't go to school that's the problem, your dumb and don't know
how to handle people in a less confrontational, strategic manner that leaves
everyone satisfied , not just your limp dick ego.
Been climbing since the 80's and I've witnessed 1/2 the people being rude
since then pretty much everywhere I go.
No one needs to make you look bad, that's where you shine.
Show me on the doll where the sport climb hurt you , maybe we can
start healing the pain you feel every time you try to belittle something
you can't do to make yourself feel better.
"Good things take time, impossible things take a little longer"
Percy Gerutty

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Re: Attention New School climbers

Post by lena_chita » Fri Oct 30, 2015 10:57 am

will wrote:
EricDorsey wrote:
Go climb someplace else then, you come off as a crusty old timer and your ego is actually way worse than the people you are criticising. Like JR said most people are comfortable climbing on other peoples draws and everyone doesnt need to conform to YOUR style of acceptable climbing, things change and its not 1982 anymore. Onsighting with draws hung has been normal practice for at least the last 2 decades, where have you been?

No one is avoiding the issue, and I am not defending the climbers you encountered, its just that you are being a gigantic cry baby. So stop crying that the gumby 5.6 route was busy during the busiest time of the year and learn to make better crag choices if you want solitude.
im not pissed that people were there climbing .. im pissed because they weren't climbing. ropes are up and no one is around! "im leaving this rope up so people see that i'm a bad ass that can lead 5.10" it's either pride or laziness .. which is it ?

since when is polite and courteous a climbing style ?

ego? i've been stuck at 5.9 trad for years .. why would i have an ego ?
Basically, you think that someone climbing a 5.10 is bragging about their ability to climb 5.10, by leaving the rope up... Presumably because you can't climb 5.10. That's where ego comes into play. Because that is the weirdest reason I have ever seem anyone give for leaving the ropes up. People leave the ropes up usually because their friends want to toprope the climb, and can't lead it. NOT because they are bragging about it.

They are being rude, by climber standards, but they don't know it. "I got here first, I put the rope up, that means that I can claim this route until my group is done climbing it".

In many other areas of life it is perfectly acceptable. Think about it: you got to a local city park, the picnic shelter was open, you set up for your boy scout picnic in the shelter. You are now under no obligation to eat quickly and be done with your picnic, even if the park gets busy. You got to this picnic table first, it is a first-come-first-serve type of deal. You will feel absolutely no guilt about having a picnic spread there for 3 hours, while the kids run around the park and occasionally come back to thew table to grab a juice box.

To the new climbers it is EXACTLY THE SAME THING! There is not reservation for a rock climb, you got there first, it is yours. Unless you speak up, they won't know better.

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Re: Attention New School climbers

Post by will » Fri Oct 30, 2015 7:01 pm

lena_chita wrote:
Basically, you think that someone climbing a 5.10 is bragging about their ability to climb 5.10, by leaving the rope up... Presumably because you can't climb 5.10. That's where ego comes into play. Because that is the weirdest reason I have ever seem anyone give for leaving the ropes up. People leave the ropes up usually because their friends want to toprope the climb, and can't lead it. NOT because they are bragging about it.

They are being rude, by climber standards, but they don't know it. "I got here first, I put the rope up, that means that I can claim this route until my group is done climbing it".

In many other areas of life it is perfectly acceptable. Think about it: you got to a local city park, the picnic shelter was open, you set up for your boy scout picnic in the shelter. You are now under no obligation to eat quickly and be done with your picnic, even if the park gets busy. You got to this picnic table first, it is a first-come-first-serve type of deal. You will feel absolutely no guilt about having a picnic spread there for 3 hours, while the kids run around the park and occasionally come back to thew table to grab a juice box.

To the new climbers it is EXACTLY THE SAME THING! There is not reservation for a rock climb, you got there first, it is yours. Unless you speak up, they won't know better.
nice picnic scenario .. i think it would be more accurate if they set up one shelter with food .. another shelter for the kids to play in and another shelter for the adults.. would it still be first come first serve ? i want to use.. lets say 3 out of 5 shelters on a busy day .. is that still fair ??

i climb 5.10 sport c'mon .. the statement was looking for reasons why people would put up a rope and walk away .. i find the new gen always needing praise or recognition. so .. i assumed that might be one reason .. look at me!!! i onsighted that .. even though i hung on every bolt.

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Re: Attention New School climbers

Post by Jackiefreesh » Fri Oct 30, 2015 7:21 pm

First off, I am a rude asshole, maybe that's why Jimmy lets me climb with him sometimes. I usually don't get as worked up as Will though, but I sympathize.
Last March on a cold and rainy day, I headed to the roof section at Chica Bonita where there was a gaggle of college kids. All the routes 'cept Dude Abides and Pocahantas Path were set with top ropes. I led Pocohantas and set a TR anchor so a friend could try climbing for the first time. Well the ringleader of the collegians came over and said they needed to get on that route. I looked around at all the other ropes and said "Looks like you own the place. We won't be long"...not the right thing to say. He says he's the guide for the Purdue climbing club and blah, blah, blah and they do so much for the gorge and blah............I don't give a shit if you built a goddam staircase at Muir, I just wanted to get my backpack saw out and slice some tendons on this card. Lucky for me and him, a coed needed a belay and I didn't have to go back to jail.
In defense of top roping, I am doing a lot more of it recently since I'm recovering from an injury. Also most multi pitches I have only led half because my partner and I swing the lead.
That was even considered proper climbing in the days of pitons. But climbing is personal for me so I wont be offended.
Also, I'll be at Emerald City in late November so watch out.

will
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Re: Attention New School climbers

Post by will » Fri Oct 30, 2015 7:27 pm

Lateralus wrote:Actually, you didn't go to school that's the problem, your dumb and don't know
how to handle people in a less confrontational, strategic manner that leaves
everyone satisfied , not just your limp dick ego.
Been climbing since the 80's and I've witnessed 1/2 the people being rude
since then pretty much everywhere I go.
No one needs to make you look bad, that's where you shine.
Show me on the doll where the sport climb hurt you , maybe we can
start healing the pain you feel every time you try to belittle something
you can't do to make yourself feel better.
this is just funny .. well done !

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