Lowering on anchors.

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milspecmark
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Lowering on anchors.

Post by milspecmark » Thu May 26, 2016 1:01 pm

So I read 2 articles today on facebook. One from American Alpine club and one from the RRG Fixed gear initiative. Both are recommending us lower from the anchors now rather than Rappelling. I have been climbing in the Red for about 8 years now and I have always heard it is more ethical to Rap than Lower. I just wanted to get your all thoughts on this issue. Do you Rap or lower?

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Re: Lowering on anchors.

Post by Rotarypwr345704 » Fri May 27, 2016 12:41 am

This topic hasn't been beaten like the proverbial dead horse.
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Re: Lowering on anchors.

Post by Cromper » Fri May 27, 2016 6:56 am

To say it is more ethical to rappel on a one pitch route is completely stupid when quicklinks are a dollar and easily replaceable.

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Re: Lowering on anchors.

Post by milspecmark » Fri May 27, 2016 8:12 am

I dont worry about the cost as much as I worry about people actually keeping up with it.

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Re: Lowering on anchors.

Post by lena_chita » Fri May 27, 2016 12:05 pm

milspecmark wrote:I don't worry about the cost as much as I worry about people actually keeping up with it.
"People" include you. Do your part to make sure the anchors are good on the routes you climb. Even if just a small minority of people does that, everything is fine, because those chains can take thousands of lowerings before they become dangerous. So ~1 person in a thousand carrying a couple of extra quicklinks in their bag is good. Be that person.

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Re: Lowering on anchors.

Post by clif » Fri May 27, 2016 12:11 pm

quicklinks or the missing link?
training is for people who care, i have a job.

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Re: Lowering on anchors.

Post by captain static » Fri May 27, 2016 12:18 pm

Don't you just love revisionism ;)
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Re: Lowering on anchors.

Post by lena_chita » Fri May 27, 2016 1:39 pm

captain static wrote:Don't you just love revisionism ;)
Well, when the revisionism is in the right direction... :lol: The ability to change your mind in the face of solid reasoning/facts is a rather valuable, and rare, thing these day. I'm all for celebrating it.

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Re: Lowering on anchors.

Post by EricDorsey » Fri May 27, 2016 5:35 pm

Climbing in the Red almost a decade and you really don't know what the general consensus is yet?

This topic has been beat to death several times already but to answer your question I lower 98% of the time. It's easier, faster, and generally safer.

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Re: Lowering on anchors.

Post by climb2core » Fri May 27, 2016 8:50 pm

captain static wrote:Don't you just love revisionism ;)
This is not revisionism. This is evolution based upon best practice to mitigate risk. Less people decking or dying beats out the traditionalists need to preserve a piece of metal.

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Re: Lowering on anchors.

Post by EricDorsey » Fri May 27, 2016 9:57 pm

climb2core wrote:
captain static wrote:Don't you just love revisionism ;)
This is not revisionism. This is evolution based upon best practice to mitigate risk. Less people decking or dying beats out the traditionalists need to preserve a piece of metal.
Revisionism: the theory or practice of revising one's attitude to a previously accepted situation or point of view.

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Re: Lowering on anchors.

Post by climb2core » Fri May 27, 2016 10:53 pm

EricDorsey wrote:
climb2core wrote:
captain static wrote:Don't you just love revisionism ;)
This is not revisionism. This is evolution based upon best practice to mitigate risk. Less people decking or dying beats out the traditionalists need to preserve a piece of metal.
Revisionism: the theory or practice of revising one's attitude to a previously accepted situation or point of view.
The comment was intended as history revisionism. or "the re-interpretation of the historical record"

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Re: Lowering on anchors.

Post by Josephine » Sat May 28, 2016 2:05 pm

If a bolter puts an anchor that has chains and quicklinks, she intends for you to lower. If he puts in rap rings spaced far apart he is either (a) cheap (b) really passionate about rapping (c) old school and didn't know better. If you lower on this set up your rope will twist. Most bolters I know of are now spending the extra $$$ to put in chains and quick links and most bolters I know are lowering. When in doubt, do what the bolters do. They've spent far more time, money, and effort and if they don't care about switch out a quick link, you shouldn't either. And you really should carry some to replace them as needed or donate to FGI or both.

And really the BEST way to clean an anchor is to ask the group that's going after you if you can use 2 of their draws and just swap them out at the anchor and lower from their gear. It's much faster and very easy. With the long lines and crowds this makes life easier for everyone.
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Re: Lowering on anchors.

Post by OMP » Mon Jun 06, 2016 6:59 am

[quote="
And really the BEST way to clean an anchor is to ask the group that's going after you if you can use 2 of their draws and just swap them out at the anchor and lower from their gear. It's much faster and very easy. With the long lines and crowds this makes life easier for everyone.[/quote]

Make sure you check out their gear if you're going to use it! Don't let them hand you a quickdraw with a raggedy dog bone! :D

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Re: Lowering on anchors.

Post by Ascentionist » Wed Jun 15, 2016 4:15 pm

Moving rope under load with embedded sand can wear through steel. I saw a diagram on the forces of lowering from a two bolt anchor in different configurations versus rappelling. I don't remember the details but I can say that clinched it for me: when in doubt rappel. But you have to realize I am about 75% Traddie and only 5% Sporto (the other 20% is a combination of boulderer and compulsive liar) so for me dealing with getting down goes far beyond convenience and ease. I've rapped off things that would make most of you puke and gotten down safely. I've freed other people's stuck ropes from rappels. And I've always looked carefully at anchors before using them.

All that said, I agree with Josi. Know enough about anchor setups to be able to recognize when the intent is to lower versus rappel. Be able to ascertain a situation where lowering would be dangerous or destructive to the anchors and avoid killing yourself or degrading the resource. If the developer intended for you to lower and the point where the rope contacts metal looks safe then go for it.
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