About your dog.

Access, Rehab Projects, Derbyfests and more...
Post Reply
User avatar
Artsay
SCIN's
Posts: 3397
Joined: Thu Sep 19, 2002 11:11 am
Location: Lexington, KY
Contact:

Post by Artsay » Tue Oct 14, 2003 3:57 pm

the lurkist wrote:What is the big mystery? Dogs should be on leashes at the cliff or left at home. I agree with JH (aka DH) on this. Why should he or anyone subordinate themselves- that is, go around, walk on egg shells, in any way adjust what would otherwise be reasonable behavior, to accomodate an dog owners dog? It is the dog owner's responsibility to maintain control of the animal and not infringe on another person's freedom/ enjoyment of the cliff.
Hugh
The way I see it, we're all here sharing the world and we should do our best to accomodate one another if it doesn't entail all that much effort. Dogs give many people enjoyment. I bet if you were to do a poll of who likes dogs at the cliff that most would say they like them there.

What you said about dogs could be said for kids too. When I go to the climbing gym, why should I have to step over a child gate at the top of the stairs, walk on egg shells not to bump into her, and wait a minute or two for her to get out of my way before getting to where I need to? Shouldn't it be the parents' responsibility to keep their kids close to them so as not to infringe on another person's freedom/enjoyment of the gym?

Now don't get me wrong, I'm not attacking you or trying to make you feel bad, but I think it's a good analogy. I love Amelia being at the gym! But kids, like dogs, need adult supervision. When we give them a little freedom we rely (though you may not realize it or not) on the patience of others to allow them to get in the way.
Does he have a strange bear claw like appendage protruding from his neck? He kep petting it.

the lurkist
In Crust We Trust
Posts: 2244
Joined: Wed Nov 13, 2002 10:07 am

Post by the lurkist » Tue Oct 14, 2003 4:29 pm

First of all, the baby gate exist because the gym owners put it there after they had a child. They did not do it to accomodate the Loeffler's. You should let Brook and Steohi know how you feel about babies and there accoutrement. You have only seen my child at climb time a handful of times (probably these instances could be counted on one had, maybe two). You won't be bothered by her again. This interference of a small human pales in comparison to the inconveniece dog owners are causing others at the cliff every weekend. When was the last time you saw Amelia mix it up with another dog, poop in the trail, piss on someone elses pack, generally cause a nuisance. Please, Michelle, you analogy is ludicrous and asinine and in general weak. I'll remember your sentiment when you have a child- i.e. I'll be polite enough to not bring it up and will support you.
Second of all, your attitude towards your dog is emblematic of what is skewed, in my opinion, with many of the posts from dog owners that I have read in this thread. You are equating human value or qualities to an animal- hence the term anthropomorphizing. This in my mind is irrational and shows a dysfunctional co dependence with an animal. Its and animal! Be as value relativistic as you want, but humans take precedence. Yours and everyone elses dog's experience at the cliff (or anywhere else) takes a back seat to a human's experience.
"It really is all good ! My thinking only occasionally calls it differently..."
Normie

Spragwa
Southern Women Rule
Posts: 3732
Joined: Sat Jan 25, 2003 12:05 pm
Location: Lexington, KY

Post by Spragwa » Tue Oct 14, 2003 4:30 pm

Hmm. WE did the poll Artsay. I don't know where but I do remember that the vote was overwhelmingly in favor of having dogs at the cliff. I am in total favor of it. I think you must know your dog, know your dog's personality and be realistic. I cannot give Dakota as much leeway as JR can give Gunner. But she doesn't need as much supervision as other dogs that I've seen.
Jesus only knows that she tries too hard. She's only trying to keep the sky from falling.

-Everlast

the lurkist
In Crust We Trust
Posts: 2244
Joined: Wed Nov 13, 2002 10:07 am

Post by the lurkist » Tue Oct 14, 2003 4:32 pm

whoops- I meant Lexington Rocks. My apoplogies to Brook and Stephi and Brian.
"It really is all good ! My thinking only occasionally calls it differently..."
Normie

Power2U
Choss Chaser
Posts: 562
Joined: Wed Apr 09, 2003 9:18 am

Post by Power2U » Tue Oct 14, 2003 4:38 pm

Wow this thread has gotten long today....

All I want to add is the following:

Should J.H. be censored??
You ROCK J.H. ,keep up the good work 15% [ 8 ]
I agree with some of the things he says , he's a little abrasive though 13% [ 7 ]
He's out of line and needs to be censored 30% [ 16 ]
I see a shovel,a bag of lime and a shallow grave in his future!!! 40% [ 21 ]

Total Votes : 52

The results of your own self initiated poll...get a clue man :!:
Lest we all forget... climbing is a mostly meaningless pursuit that we do for fun.

the lurkist
In Crust We Trust
Posts: 2244
Joined: Wed Nov 13, 2002 10:07 am

Post by the lurkist » Tue Oct 14, 2003 4:42 pm

BTW- thanks, MIchelle, for discretely telling us (Hugh and Di) how you feel and allowing us to accomodate you rather than using our daughter as leverage in an effort to justify dog owners irresponsible behavior and oblivious attitude toward their dogs control at the cliff. Good job and once again, weak.
"It really is all good ! My thinking only occasionally calls it differently..."
Normie

Guest

Post by Guest » Tue Oct 14, 2003 4:44 pm

I just re-read J.H's original post, and w/Sik's help, I realize I misread it. I apologize, J.H. I really thought you were threatening to kill the owner as well as the dog.

Everyone here has a valid point. Dogs do need to be under the control of their owners, but also, people need to be wary when approaching strange dogs - or even familiar dogs in strange circumstances. I've always been a proponent of leashing dogs, however I've learned that some dogs behave much better off leash. Generalizations simply do not apply. No one's dog should be menacing or an annoyance at the cliff or on the trail or at Miguel's, but some people will never be satisfied no matter how unobtrusive a dog's presence may be and that's the truth.

Side note, if Miguel truly wants all dogs leashed, then they absolutely should be. I have hung out with him around several of the unleashed, "resident" dogs (that pretty much live there) and I would venture a guess that he is okay with SOME dogs being unleashed. I agree that there are many there who do need to be leashed and I also really wish people would pick up their dog's crap.

Gretchen
IGNORE ME!
Posts: 2064
Joined: Fri Sep 20, 2002 9:16 am
Location: Mommyland

Post by Gretchen » Tue Oct 14, 2003 5:02 pm

Like threatening bodily harm is OK versus actually killing them.
Just genuinely disengenuous.

Guest

Post by Guest » Tue Oct 14, 2003 5:03 pm

Gretchen, he clarified that to mean only in self defense and I'm certain that he means it.

Gretchen
IGNORE ME!
Posts: 2064
Joined: Fri Sep 20, 2002 9:16 am
Location: Mommyland

Post by Gretchen » Tue Oct 14, 2003 5:07 pm

Bullshit

JH's intention

!. I will kill your dog
2 Then I will kick the ass of the owner, no matter female or male.

Amazing justificatoin on your part.
Just genuinely disengenuous.

User avatar
Artsay
SCIN's
Posts: 3397
Joined: Thu Sep 19, 2002 11:11 am
Location: Lexington, KY
Contact:

Post by Artsay » Tue Oct 14, 2003 5:08 pm

You don't have to get nasty, Hugh. I was just giving an analogy that I find fitting and it's not a weak argument either; There are bad kids and there are good kids. And yes, some kids do steal people's things, get in the way, make loud noises, and generally cause a nuisance. The parents should be the responsible ones but some slack off more than others. C'mon, you can't see the similarities here? You guys have a good kid because you all are good parents. Just like I (ahem) have good dogs because I'm a good owner. :wink:

I don't have an accoutreexcriment or whatever it is you said towards anyone either. Like I already said, I love Amelia being there as well as Charmagne's triplets, Finn, and whatever other kid graces the gym with its presence. And it's awesome to see the parents smile so much by being with them while enjoying the activity they love so much. You'll just be ruining your own good time if you chose not to bring Amelia to the gym anymore over this.
Does he have a strange bear claw like appendage protruding from his neck? He kep petting it.

Guest

Post by Guest » Tue Oct 14, 2003 5:13 pm

Gretchen wrote:Bullshit

JH's intention

!. I will kill your dog
2 Then I will kick the ass of the owner, no matter female or male.

Amazing justificatoin on your part.
I'm not justifying anything, Gretchen. J.H. clearly has issues with the way he expresses himself, and I am not condoning his threats. Not by any stretch of the imagination. Read the thread fordogsake. He clarified what he meant and you made the choice to ignore it. I have no gripe with you, so what's your problem?

overhung
Masochist
Posts: 1301
Joined: Mon Oct 07, 2002 5:18 pm
Location: LA - Lower Ashland

Post by overhung » Tue Oct 14, 2003 5:17 pm

for dogsake... clever :D
I've had just about enough of this shit.

User avatar
Jeff
Be nice to me. I won.
Be nice to me.  I won.
Posts: 2859
Joined: Thu Sep 26, 2002 2:40 pm
Location: Hangin

Post by Jeff » Tue Oct 14, 2003 5:19 pm

"TO WHOM IT MAY CONCERN: As God as my witness; The next dog that bites me, I will kill. I will kill it in front of you with my axe or machete. After that I will whip your ass. Then I will take its head to the health department and have it tested. No shit. I will hurt you, and kill it.

To prevent your dog from dying in front of you.(1) If it bites, warn me beforehand and it will be spared. Because I will not atempt to walk by it.(2) Keep your vicious dog on a leash away from the most obvious path.(3) The next time someone stashes their dog from the casual observer under a table, log, tree or in some other way sets the dog up to ambush targets of opertunity. The dog will die and you will get a double ass whipping.

This is your first, last and only warning: I will kill your dog and man or woman, I will whip your ass,"

I'm with Artsay on this one.
I don't want you anywhere near me, Theresa, or Cody when we are out climbing. Take this as a warning.
If you touch my dog to harm her, I will take it VERY personaly, and will not be responsible for my actions.
And just so you know JH, I am not one bit afraid of you or your threats. WORD.

wanderer
Gumby
Gumby
Posts: 47
Joined: Sat Mar 15, 2003 10:46 pm
Location: Evansville, Indiana

reasons why dogs end up off leash

Post by wanderer » Tue Oct 14, 2003 5:49 pm

The reason dogs always end up off their leash is because their owners get fed up dealing with them. When they are on a leash they whine and whimper and annoy their owner until they get frustrated and finally let them free. Walking a dog on a trail is pain in the rump because they go every which way but straight and it frustrates the hell out of the owner having to navigate the trail and fight a leashed dog who won't pace them so they finally let them free. Most owners will never admit this, but it's true and they know it because the scenario happens everytime I see a dog at the crag.

Post Reply