Your $$$ Needed To Keep The Southern Region Open

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Would you pay $75 per year for the next seven years to keep the Southern Region open?

Yes
74
70%
No
32
30%
 
Total votes: 106

captain static
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Your $$$ Needed To Keep The Southern Region Open

Post by captain static » Mon Dec 12, 2005 12:14 am

I estimate* that the �Red River Gorge Climbing Community� consists of about 500 people of which about 150 � 200 people are �Hardcore RRG Climbers.� Thus if the payment for the Pendergrass-Murray Recreational Preserve were to be spread out among the entire RRG Climbing Community each climber would need to cough up at least $60 - $75 per year for the next seven years to pay for the property. Regardless of your feelings about the RRGCC please consider making whatever contribution you can afford. There have been several climbers in the past year who have gotten matching contributions from their employers. The end of the 2005 tax year is soon approaching.

Thanks,

Bill Strachan, President
Red River Gorge Climbers� Coalition, Inc.
http://www.rrgcc.org

*My estimate of the number of people that comprise the �Red River Gorge Climbing Community� is based upon the following statistics from this site are:
Number of users with more than 10 posts = 393
Most users on line = 385
Users with a spray list = 475
Number of users with more than 100 posts = 143
"Be responsible for your actions and sensitive to the concerns of other visitors and land managers. ... Your reward is the opportunity to climb in one of the most beautiful areas in this part of the country." John H. Bronaugh

heavyc
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Post by heavyc » Mon Dec 12, 2005 2:05 am

How could any Red River Gorge Climber decline to support the Murray-Pendergrass area? I can understand that some climbers may not be able to cough up $75 but at least give something.
Bill, I understand that some people have issues with the RRGCC, are they able to earmark donations to go directly to the payment for the Murray-Pendergrass property as opposed to other RRGCC needs? If so, maybe these people would be more willing to donate.

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Post by pawilkes » Mon Dec 12, 2005 2:08 am

when i had a job and was climbing in the red regularly I would have totally thrown in $75, but now im back to being a student and trying to live as cheaply as possible so i guess i wouldn't really pay... that and im 600 miles away from the PMRP
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Post by Jeff » Mon Dec 12, 2005 8:15 am

We haven't been to the MP in a year, but I can't wait to get back, and $75 a year for the next 7 years is nothing to be able to continue to climb there.
I'm in for sure.

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Post by Artsay » Mon Dec 12, 2005 10:25 am

If I were to donate money on a regular basis, I would want to know several things:
1. The amount needed to be raised annually (donation goal)
2. Regular updates on our goal status
3. Who the Treasurer is
4. Quarterly Treasurer reports

I am confused over why there isn't / has never been a PayPal donation option available on the rrgcc.org site? Additionally, I don't see any requests for donations on the site or anything stating the importance of this specific goal.

I don't think it's realistic to come to this board and ask it's members to take on a yearly donation to cover the annual mortgage costs of the Southern Region. This board represents a fraction of the “Red River Gorge Climbing Community”. We've sold almost 2000 guidebooks since September. These people are the “Red River Gorge Climbing Community” and the goal should be to reach them. I don't have a guidebook in front of me....were donation requests emphasized in the Southern Region section? That is where this topic should've been raised along with a link to a donation site.

But to answer your question....sure, I'd give some money annually to save the Southern Region. But IMO, the Coalition needs to make the donation process simple and provide answers to those questions stated above. I am currently Treasurer for a mapping organization and these are standard criteria.
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Post by Meadows » Mon Dec 12, 2005 10:31 am

I second Artsay's comment even with my personal donation
Last edited by Meadows on Mon Dec 12, 2005 11:46 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by Steve » Mon Dec 12, 2005 11:42 am

I'd pony up some money to go towards the purchase of the PMRP. How could I not? The PMRP is a key cog in the wheel of Red River Gorge area climbing. The purchase of the land is something I've supported since the beginning, and despite any short commings I might have with the Coalition I would still donate.
Artsay wrote:This board represents a fraction of the “Red River Gorge Climbing Community”.
?
Then how come this board seems to be the go to resource for Red River Gorge climbing? There is an on-line guide here, the site creator penned a new guidebook, and has 2093 registered users (vs 232 at the www.rrgcc.com ). People don't go to www.kywilderness.com , people don't go to www.rrgcc.org , people don't go to www.seclimbers.org seeking information about the Red River Gorge, people come here. I know a lot of people around here used to argue that this board was not an accurate representation of the climbing community at the Red (myself included) but it hard to argue with the numbers. Maybe its time realize that this place represents a whole lot more than a fraction of the Red River Gorge Climbing Community.
Artsay wrote:I don't think it's realistic to come to this board and ask it's members to take on a yearly donation to cover the annual mortgage costs of the Southern Region.
How elese do you reach a large portion of the RRG climbing community?
I see they are still lopping off mountains in Eastern Kentucky. Electricity isn't cheap.

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Post by Huggybone » Mon Dec 12, 2005 11:46 am

I also second artsay-
A paypal donation set up would increase donations, because it simplifies the process.

Also, a way to show (for tax purposes) that the donation is to a non-profit.

Quarterly reports are also important- it let people know how the money is used, and also makes them feel good about donating.

Great example- "the friends of muir valley" newsletter- It generates positive PR and keeps people informed.

And yes, I will donate.

I'd be willing to say that the 'no' votes, even for those strapped for cash, would donate if they belived their money would help secure the property- which is what a newsletter would do.
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Post by Huggybone » Mon Dec 12, 2005 11:47 am

I also second steve- I think this board is the best way to communicate with the climbing community.

If gretchen had not been so talented at pissing people off there might still be a RRGCC folder on this board.
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Post by Artsay » Mon Dec 12, 2005 12:33 pm

Steve -
Then how come this board seems to be the go to resource for Red River Gorge climbing? ... I know a lot of people around here used to argue that this board was not an accurate representation of the climbing community at the Red (myself included) but it hard to argue with the numbers. Maybe its time realize that this place represents a whole lot more than a fraction of the Red River Gorge Climbing Community.
When I'm at the RRG, I can honelty say that I see only a small portion of rrc.com posters there. I could rattle off 20 names right now of active RRG climbers that don't post here. I wish everyone were members of this board but, unfortunately, that's just not the case. But even if this board represents 30% of the overall RRG climbing community, that's HUGE and shouldn't be taken lightly.

Additionally, I can't say how impressed I am with our members. Although, IMO, only a fraction of our members make up the climbers at the RRG, I would say 80%+ of our members are the current trail workers, event contributors, and flat out giving force to all RRG climbing events. Our members rule.

To answer the rest of your question, this board IS the go to resource for climbing at the RRG. I can't tell you how many requests we get to help so many facets of RRG climbing and we try to accomodate all of these requests. But in simplest terms, it's mostly because of Ray. He's a goal oriented junkie and has to always be doing something productive with his time and this site, online guide, and guidebook are the result. Additionally, he's all about providing all the site resources for free and, because of this, we have KICK ASS people who WANT to help update and enhance the online guide and moderate the board. Thanks you guys! You know who you are. :D

I don't think there's anything wrong with the RRGCC coming here to ask for monetary support for the Southern Region. However, to only use our number of members, sprayers, and posters to run a quick calculation of "mortgage divided by people = yearly donation" is not the answer to paying the mortgage on the Southern Region.
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Post by Dsnydes33 » Mon Dec 12, 2005 1:21 pm

Gotta make it easy. Online credit card payments.

I gave 100 back when you guys had the THERED.org website. I sure as hell didnt have any money at the time. I wouldnt have sent a check or made a cash donation or bought any sort of raffle ticket, but I didint even think twice about adding another $100 of debt to my credit card, from the convenience of my own home.

Also the idea of showing the goal and status of the goal is important. A good example is the www.seclimbers.org

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Post by Pete » Mon Dec 12, 2005 1:30 pm

If you donate to the RRGCC, simply ask for a receipt. Further, unless your charitable givings are pretty big, nobody wants to see your receipts, etc. - not even your accountant or the IRS (unless you get randomly selected for an audit).

AND, if you write a check to the RRGCC for that $75, you should have your own record of it should a receipt not make it to you in a timely manner.

AND, as a contributor to any non-profit organization, you can earmark your funds for specific purposes -

It should also be noted that the RRGCC has no paid staff, no rental office space, etc. - very little administrative costs (a website and a po box, not a big percentage of the organization's budget) - so we shouldn't get upset if 3% (a guess) of our contribution goes to help pay for those things - they're not sucking money away from the property. It isn't uncommon for non-profits to have as high as 30% of their donations going to "administrative" costs (salaries, etc.) - certainly we shouldn't be opposed to helping keep the PO Box open, the letterhead current, etc. I'm sure that the RRGCC exec board can provide you with the stats on the % of the budget that is used for administrative costs vs. programatic costs (i.e. paying for the property).

If you've ever climbed on the Coalition property, you should pony up what you can. We will, to be sure.

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Post by captain static » Mon Dec 12, 2005 3:21 pm

Thank you Artsay and everyone else for your thoughtful posts (and for your pledges to donate!). I am responding to Artsay's post because it seemed to be most comprehensive.
Artsay wrote:I don't think it's realistic to come to this board and ask it's members to take on a yearly donation to cover the annual mortgage costs of the Southern Region.
No it is not realistic, there are obviously other sources of funding that need to be and are being looked at. Part of my purpose in posting was to generate interest and input into the RRGCC Strategic Planning process from the climbing community. With the purchase of the PMRP, fundraising has become the RRGCC's greatest challenge. At the Access Fund summit that Bob, Charlie, and I attended, Steve Matous, Executive Director of the Access Fund, suggested to Bob that when we ask for money, we need to break it down into simple math.
Artsay wrote:If I were to donate money on a regular basis, I would want to know several things:
1. The amount needed to be raised annually (donation goal)
2. Regular updates on our goal status
3. Who the Treasurer is
4. Quarterly Treasurer reports
1. Approximately $30,000 per year to pay for the property.
2. We are working on putting up a goal thermometer on the rrgcc.org website and are currently at about 10% of our goal with the payment due in mid-June (i.e. when 100% of our goal needs to be met.)
3. The Treasurer is Ryan Adams.
4. I would agree that this is a reasonable expectation.
Artsay wrote:I am confused over why there isn't / has never been a PayPal donation option available on the rrgcc.org site? Additionally, I don't see any requests for donations on the site or anything stating the importance of this specific goal.
There was a PayPal option on thered.org site and we are working on reactivating a link to our PayPal account on the rrgcc.org site.
Artsay wrote:This board represents a fraction of the “Red River Gorge Climbing Community”. We've sold almost 2000 guidebooks since September. These people are the “Red River Gorge Climbing Community” and the goal should be to reach them. I don't have a guidebook in front of me....were donation requests emphasized in the Southern Region section? That is where this topic should've been raised along with a link to a donation site.
The information about the need for $30,000 a year, website information, etc. is all in the 2nd paragraph of the PMRP Introduction in the guidebook. I agree that the RRGCC would benefit from reaching a greater audience than the 500-600 climbers who are regulars on this site or who are or have been RRGCC members. The question is what is the best way to extend our reach to them? Perhaps just as important a question is how can the RRGCC recruit and motivate more volunteers to get involved in helping to do the work of the organization? It is easy to get climbers to show up for a trail day or attend an event. It is not as easy to get climbers motivated to attend meetings, do administrative work, etc.
"Be responsible for your actions and sensitive to the concerns of other visitors and land managers. ... Your reward is the opportunity to climb in one of the most beautiful areas in this part of the country." John H. Bronaugh

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Post by squeezindlemmon » Mon Dec 12, 2005 3:26 pm

captain static wrote:Perhaps just as important a question is how can the RRGCC recruit and motivate more volunteers to get involved in helping to do the work of the organization? It is easy to get climbers to show up for a trail day or attend an event. It is not as easy to get climbers motivated to attend meetings, do administrative work, etc.
The fact that most of the volunteers need to be from Lexington is a difficult requirement for some of us who would like to help out but live in a different area.
Emancipate yourself from mental slavery. None but ourselves can free our mind. ~Bob Marley

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Post by Artsay » Mon Dec 12, 2005 4:02 pm

Now on the front page is an announcement asking for donations for the PMRP.
We created a PayPal account and will post updates as to how much money we are receiving as well as send monthly checks/transfers to the RRGCC. Click on the "Make a Donation button" on the front page of the site to send your donation.

Ray and I have our money in the pot... Anyone else? Let's show how kick ass *our* climbing community is here on this BBS by making an impressive donation to preserving climbing in the Red River Gorge!
Last edited by Artsay on Mon Dec 12, 2005 7:02 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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