Problems at the Red

Access, Rehab Projects, Derbyfests and more...
Southern Women Rule
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Problems at the Red

Post by Spragwa » Wed Mar 29, 2006 9:51 pm

In writing this post, I'm gonna catch tons of crap. But these are things that I really believe. The Redriver Gorge climbing community is one of the best, most beloved factors in my life. Our community is socially diverse and wonderfully supportive. Recently, we are faced with some serious challenges that are testing our mettle as a community. Access issues are hitting the Gorge pretty dang hard. We may lose vital cliffs including the Southern Region and Torrent forever and Muir Valley is threatened by temporary closure.

Other challenges that face this community are the diverse personalities. As our lives change, our character changes and does our outlooks on life. When I first came to this community I found several personalities to be absolutely intolerable. But I learned long ago that I can dislike a person and respect their contributions. Still, I kept them at arms length and generally avoid interacting. That doesn't mean they are not part of the community and deserving of acknowledgement.

In writing this, I'm trying to say that this community can and will pull through the adversity that we are facing right now. We are good people who are willing to work hard and work together. I love this community with all my heart.

Yeah, this post is gay. But it's how I feel and I think that we need some honest time for introspection, healing and thinking about what the Gorge, or the Red, really means to us.
Jesus only knows that she tries too hard. She's only trying to keep the sky from falling.


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Post by dipsi » Wed Mar 29, 2006 9:56 pm

Thank you, Morgain.

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Post by Cliff Heindel » Wed Mar 29, 2006 10:16 pm

Well if this is where the line starts to catch alot of crap and be this what happens when large quantities of coffee become available in the Gorge?
I live 8 hours from the gorge and all of you poster people are not much more than voices in my head but whatever else is going on, the Southern Region is the only space big enough to hold a
good old fashion feud, so WHATEVER, lets keep paying the bills.

And, as a somewhat new contributor the the site, I've found it REMARKABLY easy to be misunderstood.
'really ?' -fluffy

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Post by SikMonkey » Wed Mar 29, 2006 11:10 pm

you are absolutely 100% correct......that post was gay. All the warm fuzzies are giving me a hairball. ;)

...quitting drinking is kinda like washing your hands after you take a crap...why start now?

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Post by anticlmber » Wed Mar 29, 2006 11:11 pm

everyone contributes to this place. if its someone that gives of their time and money to let us have a place to climb, put up routes, organize ways for us to make a good image of our selves, or just some college yahoo drunk for the first time, they are a small view of what the gorge offers. they all show a side. we can learn what side we want to show, unfortunatly a lot of times it is our backside and we also speak out of that side as well. learn what angers you, for me that is alot, but do not let it consume you, mine does not. find the ways to mold this place into something special for EVERYONE. if you dont like something/someone there are nice ways to deal with it. by being dicks, we are veiwed as dicks, and treated as dicks. ie we all get screwed. i love this home more than any but we all need to start taking care of the garbage in our own backyard before we lose our backyard.
i love all you arrogant, back stabbing, number chasing, tree hugging, clear cutting, over bolting, under bolting, tick marking, dog having, beta spraying, trash throwing, mouth breathing, city folk, waste of space, trad climbing, bolt clipper, boulderers, with your "hidden" crags, that you talk about on your wireless vibrator as you sip soy chai, out of each others ass between blowing smoke up there. If it wasnt for you fucksticks i dont know what id have to be happy about. Please continue to make this community what it is.....a community/family. it really is the best. :mrgreen:
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Post by Guest » Wed Mar 29, 2006 11:17 pm

the way I see it is that we are one big dysfunctional family. We may not always like each other, but we should certainly stick together or we might just end up homeless, with plastic as our only remaining option.

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Post by RRO » Wed Mar 29, 2006 11:18 pm

Long post, skip as needed.

In the time of late fees, time clocks, contracts, dead lines, traffic jams and endless to do lists why do we bring the “real” world drama and bullshit into climbing?

As humans it seems imbedded in our genes that drama must exist. IMO it’s a human character flaw that needs stamped out. Maybe I am naive in thinking that humans and for some reason especially climbers are inherently good and truly care at a level greater than ones self.

Maybe my eyes were closed years ago when I first hit the scene we know as the Red. To me it just seems like the camps are becoming more and more divided. Please don’t take me wrong, great things have been done and many a good deeds have gone unspoken. Its just seems so political and like everyone is walking on eggshells lately.

I’m not an educated man so maybe it’s not as clear to me as it is to others. I just can’t comprehend all the negative emotion and behavior that’s going on. It feels like an elementary school recess and you have to pick sides for Red Rover. We are blessed with the some of the best climbing in the country, the most generous land owners, a community that when needed pulls together and makes amazing things happen. Yet we seem to dwell on who’s right or wrong. Last I checked there were no rules in climbing.

Climbing is just a stepping-stone to a much greater path. To me it’s the friendships we make, the places we see and a way to see the potential of oneself and others. Why must we muddy the waters with child like name calling, full on personal attacks and long term grudges and gossip?

Perfection and heavenly bliss are only found in fairy tales and I don’t expect them to find there way into our little community, it would be way to damn boring if it did. But I would like to ask that the next time you feel the need to belittle someone, complain about his or her choices in life or climbing, respond to an online attack that you step back and chill a second. Re-read a post before you hit submit, think before you speak and let bullshit gossip stop with you. Use common courtesy dealing with people.

Imagine if everyone applied their energy to a greater good what could be done in the Red.

In the end its only rock climbing. Enjoy the moment while it lasts, none of us will make it out alive and who knows when our time may come.

If you need to contact me , email me. Less Internet, less stress


Post by Guest » Wed Mar 29, 2006 11:23 pm

you're educated in the important ways, Matt. (See my new favorite quote in my sig line. I couldn't agree with you more!)

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Post by pigsteak » Wed Mar 29, 2006 11:32 pm

sprag, you suck for starting this thread. :wink:

however, covering up these issues will not result in "community" if the under current is full of wrath and venom.

i do agree with RRO though. these things need to be aired between the concerned parties, not between all of us drama queens on here.

shut down this site for the entire summer, except for the online guide..maybe we all will climb more and bitch less.
Positive vibes brah...positive vibes.

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Post by mcrib » Thu Mar 30, 2006 12:01 am

I still can't figure out why I come to this site so much. But I come here after checking my email. Some stuff on this site pisses me off. But then I realize that this is the internet. I am still enjoying some of the best climbing days I've ever had in the red and I've climbing there for twelve years. I am worried about things. I feel like there are fears being realized. I never want any ill to come to the Gorge that I consider my spirtual home.
"I just want to disappear"

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Post by Paul3eb » Thu Mar 30, 2006 12:08 am

a particular friend and i recently had a conversation about our friendship that was/is falling apart, that it always seems to be in a slow glide towards catastrophe. for the past several years, we've gone through at least a half dozen times when our friendship was literally hanging by threads, when it was torn and beaten and neglected, when we couldn't say a kind word or hear anything without feeling scorned or disrespected. usually, we'd air (most) everything out, explain as best we could what's been going wrong, and mull some more over it as the anger and pride fermented inside.

and here's the funny part: every time, within a couple weeks or months, we'd be right back on track. if anything, things were better afterwards each time. we'd understand each other more, be a little easier going, and gain some patiences and feel more like kin that anything else.

and that's when we realized that we have it backwards.. things between us are almost always getting better but it's these short little bouts that highlight the past and stick out like pungi sticks in the sand. sure, we fight and we will again and it'll suck and feel bad.. but it gets better. and maybe it gets better because of the fights, because of the bitterness that we each grow and grow together. as long as there's some basic connection, i have no doubt we can survive the harshest of words.

long story short: sometimes you need to hit rock bottom to see everything you had when you were standing in the sun with two feet on the ground. and sometimes even the fall and climb out make you all the stronger and smarter than you were before.

this whole situation happened/is happening/will happen again. to me, the more important question is this:

what are we learning from all this?

plenty, i think. look around and see..
and great loves will one day have to part -smashing pumpkins

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Post by Jeff » Thu Mar 30, 2006 5:13 am

pigsteak wrote:shut down this site for the entire summer, except for the online guide..maybe we all will climb more and bitch less.
The internet is the Devil.

In my mind, this site has always been a blessing AND a curse.
It's how we use it that creates problems and division, but I guess that's human nature or some shit.
It's so easy to be mis-understood, talk something to death, be an anonymous, shit-stirring asshole, try to be better or cooler than others, the funniest at all costs....

It all creates a vibe that is not so good. Then once we are actually climbing at the Red we want it to be a diferent place than what we make it on here.

You can't go back in time, but how would things be if when you wanted to know something you would actually have to speak face to face with someone?

I like your suggestion Kip.

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Post by gunslnga » Thu Mar 30, 2006 7:12 am

Cliff Heindel wrote: And, as a somewhat new contributor the the site, I've found it REMARKABLY easy to be misunderstood.
You have now been officially indoctrinated to the next level! :D
The enemy of my enemy is my friend.....

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Post by Spragwa » Thu Mar 30, 2006 8:00 am

Warning: Link to Christian Doctrine. I find it appropriate. You can learn a lot from religion, regardless of your spirituality.

Oh and I don't follow this very well but I think it's humbling to strive for it even for one day.
Jesus only knows that she tries too hard. She's only trying to keep the sky from falling.


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Post by the lurkist » Thu Mar 30, 2006 8:09 am

what did I miss? Did someone die?
"It really is all good ! My thinking only occasionally calls it differently..."

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