Green Climbing

Other Crags, Aid Climbing, Bouldering, etc...
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pigsteak
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Post by pigsteak » Fri Feb 12, 2010 11:25 am

just read the new issue of Climbing. if you don't come away feeling guilty, you didn't pay attention.

seems like the theme here is "my little mess doesn't matter when the big polluters are responsible"..

I always thought climbers were environmentally friendly, but I stand corrected.
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Post by anticlmber » Fri Feb 12, 2010 11:31 am

don't generalize asshole.

the ONLY thing i'm friendly towards is the enviroment.
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Post by rjackson » Fri Feb 12, 2010 11:54 am

pigsteak wrote:I always thought climbers were environmentally friendly, but I stand corrected.
Climbers are no different than anyone else. We're all selfish, and the little bit of 'green' that anyone does is really just to make themselves feel better or to save some cash. Wes has a good perspective - it 'is' like polishing brass on the Titanic.

So everyone needs to get over their guilt and enjoy being at the top of the food chain. Do the little things if they make you happy and remember, you could get hit a bus tomorrow...
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Post by anticlmber » Fri Feb 12, 2010 12:13 pm

rjackson wrote: Climbers are no different than anyone else. We're all selfish, and the little bit of 'green' that anyone does is really just to make themselves feel better or to save some cash. Wes has a good perspective - it 'is' like polishing brass on the Titanic.

So everyone needs to get over their guilt and enjoy being at the top of the food chain. Do the little things if they make you happy and remember, you could get hit a bus tomorrow...
so are you saying that all of the technological advancements have been for selfis means? and that the people using them are just doing it to feel better even if to make themselves feel better the will hopefully help others.

just want to know so mother theresa, ghandi, dali lama, and the millions of others that give themselves to others are just in it for themselves??

we can either polish or we can gouge a bigger hole. i don't see the similarities even though it's the same boat.
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Post by pigsteak » Fri Feb 12, 2010 12:25 pm

anti, I do believe that there is no such thing as altruism...every "nice" thing we do has a good fuzzy feeling attached to it, so that is a selfish reward...
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Post by rjackson » Fri Feb 12, 2010 12:35 pm

My references are primarily to the sustainability movement, but an argument could be made for humanity in general. No matter how you look at it, we are the cancer. We are the organism that has worked it's way to the top and is devouring the host. There is no slowing down of the population or of the desire for advancements (and most technological advancement is for profit - even the end of suffering has a backer somewhere funding it and hoping for a return on investment). The 'green' movement is sort of a shot at self-preservation before the cycle begins again - which is basically the end of our reign when it's dust to dust...

Ghandi, the Dali Lama and Mother Teresa are all excellent examples of humanitarians - but I'm not so sure that anything is selfless. They all have agendas (albeit decent ones).

Until the concept of nations is rejected and the concept of a single people is adopted universally, it will most likely all be gratuitous efforts.

These are my opinions and I will always applaud those that stand up for their convictions; just don't kid yourself. It's way bigger than we can comprehend.
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Post by anticlmber » Fri Feb 12, 2010 12:37 pm

well duh, if the first single-celled organisms had gone to negative stimulus we wouldn't be here.

but you mean to tell me that there are NO selfless people??
and to honor your statement if doing good makes you feel good how is that selfish? giving blood doesn't make me feel good but i do it to help others.
i help others, not to help me but to help them.
wes, you, and many others rebolt/bolt stuff you'll never be able to climb and you guys bitch about the lack of respect you get for doing it; yet you still do it. why? i mean if it bugs you fuckers so much why do it? its selfless right?

and yes piggie, just like karma BS, if you have to have a reason to do something then its crap, if you just do it then i don't see the selfishness in it. just like mr. hunter in your other post. do you think he came to your side to make HIMSELF feel better. shit man, a hallmark card is waayyyy easier.
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Post by anticlmber » Fri Feb 12, 2010 12:41 pm

and as long as people keep hiding behind the "it's all for selfish reasons" BS then your right rjack, it will be in vain and futile. but somewhere, someone/thing made you guys give up the dreams you may/may not have held. why? what? who?

to dismiss everyone as selfish is the most selfish act of all. you pretend that nobody is better than you when inside you know you are wrong.
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Post by charlie » Fri Feb 12, 2010 1:06 pm

anticlmber wrote:.....to dismiss everyone as selfish is the most selfish act of all. you pretend that nobody is better than you when inside you know you are wrong.
It's geniush like this why I occasionally read these threads. Well done dude.

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Post by rjackson » Fri Feb 12, 2010 1:12 pm

You are assuming that we are 'dismissing' but all I am doing is stating an altruism. I applaud your efforts at trying to make your world a better place, but like Pigsteak said, it's attached to that warm fuzzy feeling. Would you still do it if every time you did it you lost a week of your life? or a loved one? or your soul?
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Post by toad857 » Fri Feb 12, 2010 1:18 pm

any organism that has a chance to pass on its genes is inherently selfish... and, yes, so are you. no matter how altruistic you think you are, it's ultimately about you passing on your genes (even if not at the conscious level). don't believe me? then you may as well spit in the faces of your thousands of dead ancestors that clawed their way through other organisms to pass on their (your) genes.

even an altruistic human puts him/herself first. don't believe me? go cut out your liver and feed it to a starving pig. cuz pigs get hungry, too. :twisted:

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Post by anticlmber » Fri Feb 12, 2010 1:25 pm

sure because i know that all of that stuff is fleeting. life, friends, loved ones, and the whole shibang.
to give my life, or at least a week of it each time, for helping others would be fine with me. to know that the world i leave may/may not be better but that i TRIED would be all the warm fussy i need. i think the question is, if you were never congratulated, thanked, had a shrine built to you, etc. would you continue to do it knowing that nobody knew or cared.
almost all of you go to a job that you probably don't like, work with some folks you could care less about, and the majority of you will never be compensated or thanked for your duty but you still show up and for what?? a paycheck.
so why is it crazy to think that there are people out there doing what they LOVE and BELIEVE in for free and many at the cost of their own life. its not about being a martyr, its about being a human being for other humans

remember, character is what you do when noone is watching.

and if that pig truly needed it, i would share with it for i have more to give even though i have nothing.
Last edited by anticlmber on Fri Feb 12, 2010 1:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Barnacle Ben » Fri Feb 12, 2010 1:25 pm

pigsteak wrote: seems like the theme here is "my little mess doesn't matter when the big polluters are responsible"..

I always thought climbers were environmentally friendly, but I stand corrected.
You never answered my question. What about donations to the Access Fund or RRGCC, etc., especially when the procurement of land results in the avoidance of development on it?

I might be mistaken, but I think climbers and other outdoors groups lobbied pretty hard in favor of that big BLM dedication out in Utah. Bush* tried to deed the land to his oil buddies when he left office, Obama* (via Ken Salazar I believe) nixed it.

*Note: I am not in favor of either administration; I think they both largely suck. But I was glad the Obama admin. did this.
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Post by Barnacle Ben » Fri Feb 12, 2010 1:37 pm

According to its 2008 Annual Report (the most recent one available), the Access Fund received about $230k in individual and foundational donations, and $430k in member dues. Obviously, 'someone' is footing the bill to pay for land that remain largely undeveloped.

http://www.accessfund.org/atf/cf/%7B1F5 ... Report.pdf
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Post by ahab » Fri Feb 12, 2010 1:38 pm

so its come to this, huh? just 5 pages in. wow.
someone hit the flush plunger.
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