Green Climbing

Other Crags, Aid Climbing, Bouldering, etc...
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charlie
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Post by charlie » Fri Feb 12, 2010 1:42 pm

toad857, and those of us that have no intention of breeding?

Sadly, most of these insights seem a bit banal to me. Every being has the potential for wisdom and a bit less pedestrian motivations. I am sad for those that remain ignorant of their potential to be more than a bunch of cells holding hands.

Mostly, I just can't stop believing every little bit helps.

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Post by anticlmber » Fri Feb 12, 2010 2:05 pm

^+ 0.000000745

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Post by pigsteak » Fri Feb 12, 2010 2:13 pm

to charlie and anti...the problem is that our society has taken the word 'selfish" as a negative....why is looking out for self interests a bad thing?

why do people give to the Access Fund? Because they like to climb which is a selfish pursuit.

Why do folks help other people out in need? Maybe your Mom taught you that (thereby you get to please Mom). maybe your beliefs promise reward for doing well in this life (reward). Mybe you sit back and believe in karma, therfore your good deed will beneft you in the future. Maybe you do it becasue you no helping the less fortunate makes society as a whole better (again, the reward)...

I agree with rjackson...if doing good were met with a ball peen hammer everytime everyone of us would cease at sometime....

this isn't about pretending people aren't better than others...of course they are. we all have different levels of ego stroking we need, but every single on of us have the need. you're lying if you deny that.
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charlie
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Post by charlie » Fri Feb 12, 2010 4:17 pm

That just doesn't seem like a useful way of thinking about things to me. You see someone working for something else, and say they are doing it for themselves. It's not that they maybe aren't trying to make their situation better too, but it discounts the efforts that may largely be directed towards something other than themselves.

It's like looking at the world, which we all know has way too many opportunities for "Boo" and essentially trivializing an opportunity for a "Yay" and turning it into a "Meh" because nobody is ever capable of an altruistic action. That sucks, and you cannot convince me to think like that. I'm sad for people that do think like that.

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Post by toad857 » Fri Feb 12, 2010 5:36 pm

charlie wrote:toad857, and those of us that have no intention of breeding?
doesn't mean you don't have an urge to get laid every once in a while. some of our gene's evolutionary tactics are pretty hard to resist....

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Post by Ascentionist » Fri Feb 12, 2010 6:37 pm

Move closer to your favorite climbing area so you don't have to drive so much. This also solves the other problem of calling yourself a "local" when you live in a different climate from the area you are claiming as your "home" crag.
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Post by caribe » Fri Feb 12, 2010 6:38 pm

Zen master Ryokan was walking on the beach. A storm had just blown over. Hundreds of starfish had been washed up by the waves; they were beginning to die in the sharp sunlight. Ryokan picked up the starfish one by one and threw them back into the sea.

A fisherman who had been observing Ryokan came up to him. “Why do you do this? Every time there’s a storm, this happens. You can’t save them all, so what difference does your attempt make?â€

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Post by Brentucky » Fri Feb 12, 2010 7:17 pm

Doesn't sound like Ryokan was doing the "green" thing messing up the natural order of things, that selfish bastard!

Ah, but master brentucky realizes that Ryokan realizes he is part of the natural order of things, and he acted to make a difference as he thought right and good in the moment.

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clif
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Post by clif » Fri Feb 12, 2010 7:55 pm

the girl in the pink panties isn't selfish.

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Post by anticlmber » Fri Feb 12, 2010 8:08 pm

pigsteak wrote: 'selfish" as a negative....why is looking out for self interests a bad thing Maybe you do it becasue you no helping the less fortunate makes society as a whole better (again, the reward)...

I agree with rjackson...if doing good were met with a ball peen hammer everytime everyone of us would cease at sometime....

this isn't about pretending people aren't better than others...of course they are. we all have different levels of ego stroking we need, but every single on of us have the need. you're lying if you deny that.
first, thats the difference pigmouth, self-interest can encompass others, selfish does not.
doing something to benifit society as a whole is a fairly selfless act. being king of the world is not.

and yet there is evidence of many folks who prove you wrong. MLK, ghandi, lincoln, my mother, many people in jobs that actually benifit people and not just their wallet. i made more NOT having to look at some sick, shitty ass but i do it, why? to help those who are sick and in need.

do i have an ego to stroke? sure, but not all the the time. as you said we all do but just as you state, "we all have different levels." i agree also. if i was middle age, a miserable accountant who spent hours ithat could be spent doing something to better the world but instead hopes to bring others down to his level because of a small prick and a premature ejaculation, then yeah, i'd look at the world the way you do to and would therefore need some SERIOUS stroking
quit laughing rjack

but i don't, i like the world and most people and will continue to help them. you say its wrong to feel good to help people, like its some...sin, when really my friend, the worst is to be happy telling others they don't matter and that life is all selfish. i hope you folks DON'T reproduce, i'd hate to grow up in your household where there is no promise of a sunny day or a better tomorrow.

i see why some folk kill themselves now. and to think, i was just selfish for not doing it even though i'd be selfish if i did. fukkin catch 22 asshole
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Post by Clevis Hitch » Fri Feb 12, 2010 8:45 pm

concur
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Post by anticlmber » Fri Feb 12, 2010 8:49 pm

to pose it to you rjack, you have a son, you love him and your wife; unconditionally i assume. you have done things in your life to make his life better, (hers as well) and the future better for him like college fund, help with bills, or just being there for him. it makes you feel better sure (and i hope it does or what good is being a parent?) but you do it not for you, but for him. that's a selfless thing.

now, say that same son turns on you, disspises you, loathes you, steals from you, and when its all said and done he locks you away in a nursing home to rot.

provided that your son is a good person you don't expect this so you give to him selflessly. you would do without so he could have what he needs and then some. you may never think that he may do you wrong, maybe he already has, but you would still love him i'm guessing, you would still hope for the best even though you've seen the worse. you do it out of love which is truly selfless.

that my friend is all i am saying, that if someone is doing what they love AND that love is for all people, or whatever people are in the crosshair at that time, they are not doing it for themselves, they are doing it for someone else.

as we say, love is blind.
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clif
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Post by clif » Fri Feb 12, 2010 10:03 pm

i think these exchanges are so much more fruitful when people directly address questions and comments and respond to one another's interests and counter-arguments. maybe it doesn't happen that often because it's not primarily selfish.

whatever.

i just wanted to exploit the predominant argument that all behavior is selfish. which means the pervasive belief that military personnel are making sacrifices is propaganda. as well as the notion that politicians in public service are not. Mr. Pigsteak (mostly)-if i accept your point, are you accepting the idea that the majority of the American public is delusional?

...and, are you getting kickbacks or free subscriptions from 'Climbing'?

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Clevis Hitch
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Post by Clevis Hitch » Fri Feb 12, 2010 10:38 pm

That what I'm talking about!! :mrgreen:
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Post by michaelarmand » Fri Feb 12, 2010 11:59 pm

This thread has gone from bad to awful.
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