Other Crags, Aid Climbing, Bouldering, etc...
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Post by Lucinda » Fri Oct 17, 2003 11:25 pm

I like smoking crack from time to time. I really like the place it puts me in. I only do it when I'm alone and my kids aren't around. I might frighten them if the see me do it They get scared when they see me climb, so I don't let them watch me do that anymore, besides, it spoils my concentration. I don't think I'm being selfish, its my body, my mind. What wrong with a little stimulation?
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Post by Artsay » Fri Oct 17, 2003 11:43 pm

Selfish: Caring supremely or unduly for one's self; regarding one's own comfort, advantage, etc., in disregard, or at the expense, of those of others.

Is soloing selfish? That's a moot question. Some say it is, some say it isn't. Once again there are two opposing sides arguing a view point. Here? On Imagine that.... :roll: :wink: :)
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Post by andy_lemon » Sat Oct 18, 2003 1:14 am

Come on guys... what's all the gripe? I had TK's spot the whole time.
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Post by dipsi » Sat Oct 18, 2003 6:50 am

People! I have worked with victims of accidental falls. (Thus far no solo climbers!) Trust me, you don't want to fall and live.
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Post by Wicked Tribe » Sat Oct 18, 2003 7:55 am

Steve Freas soloed and downclimbed Creature least he told me he did. I believe it because I watched hom solo and downclimb Sunshine. He also talked about attmepting to solo Roadside Attraction many times but backing off.

If I want to solo (and I never do) I wouldn't ask anyone elses permission. If you don't like it then leave. I get anxious when I see someone doing something dangerous, like not paying attention to their climber while belaying or taking their hand off the brake or placing shoddy gear, but I don't get all authoritative on them and pack up and leave. I think most people who solo have their act together while most gumbies need a little more attention and support through the learning stage. Granted some soloists are just plain stupid...if that's the case, let them do their thing. Natural Selection is a wonderful tool.
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Post by john e aragon » Sat Oct 18, 2003 10:28 am

i solo often (usually with a silent partner) it is something i choose to do and feel that the level of risk is more than acceptable for my skill level. if were to go trying to solo 12's then i feel that would be nuts for me. soloing is about what is comfortabel for you and only you. those of us that do it will never be able to justify it to those of you who do not.

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Post by TexasK » Sat Oct 18, 2003 4:05 pm

Last edited by TexasK on Tue Oct 21, 2003 5:32 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Post by zoe » Sat Oct 18, 2003 6:16 pm

charlie wrote:You people need to chill. Why's everyone always pissing about the ways someone enjoy's their life? If it's not bringing a dog to the crag, it's something you heardsome 14 year old said sometime, or the way some people spend their time climbing.
Interesting...thought this particular forum was about opinion, strong or otherwise. Except for the childish name calling (maybe that's where the reference to 14 year olds comes in - do guys really call each other Pussy's past this age?), it's a pretty healthy thing to voice your view. Open your mind a little...or perhaps you think we need to rename this forum something like ""


Post by Guest » Sat Oct 18, 2003 8:33 pm


Wes wrote:

People get killed far more by other kinds of climbing issues. .

What a bunch of P.C. pussies.

Well, let me tell you about my soloing experience. I was at the anchors on the first pitch of "bedtime for bonzo". I had just finished belaying up my party. They had all went through the gap and I was getting ready to come off of the anchors and join them. Here comes this girl free soloing up the bottom pitch. She gets to the mantle and she can't pull it. She tells me she is scared and for me to help her. I reach down and pull her dumb-ass up over the lip. I don't know if she would have died. She definately would have been fucked up. So the thing that I really resent is you dumbass spray lords getting on the board and around your friends at Miguels and talking it up about how big and badass climbers you are because you free solo'd .........
What the fuck ever dumbass.

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Post by meetVA » Sun Oct 19, 2003 10:07 am

the spirit of climbing seems to have initiated from the desire to push the human limit and go where no one has gone or said that it couldn't be done. one wonders though how far that will be taken? not to mention names, but a climber who i really respect talks freely (but it is his/her story) about soloing a route that was well below his/her limit and still falling off of it. taking it easy is no guarantee.

know the risk you take. and know that that risk extends beyond your life.

especially remember that the red is not the west. climbing access is not guaranteed and i'd really like to be able to continue climbing.
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Post by TexasK » Sun Oct 19, 2003 11:19 am

Last edited by TexasK on Tue Oct 21, 2003 5:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by gulliver » Sun Oct 19, 2003 3:08 pm

I didn't have a problem with your post TK. You addresssed the face hold thing ,that is kinda creepy !

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Post by Rain Man » Sun Oct 19, 2003 4:56 pm

Thank you, 88keys, for understanding the actual definition of selfish, and not asigning it the typical negative emotions evoked when people hear it. Inconsiderate is the correct word to use (splitting hairs and off-topic, I know, but a peve of mine, nonetheless), because truly selfish acts are neither bad or harmful to others (too long a discussion on philosophy to get into on a bullettin board.)

All that being said, if someone wants to free-solo, rock on. However, if one has no desire to spray about the free-solo, then there would never be a mention of it, unless asked "Have you free-soloed?" in which case the non-spray answer would be simply "Yes", with no mention of the route, or grade, or height, etc. It's all very a interesting feature of sociology and human nature.

ANd THEN, on top of all that, isn't anything below say, 35-40' just a highball? When does a long boulder problem become a "route"? (serious question there, I'm curious.)

Oh yeah, and one more thing. Not trying to offend anyone, but, if anyone is climbing and doesn't think there is a chance they could get hurt, they need to stop. If a person is so affected by the sight of another climber falling and being severely injured or killed that they themselves quit climbing, then they too should not be climbing in the first place. We all know the risks of adding potential energy to our bodies. Perhaps if one free-soloer witnessed another free-soloer plummit to his/her death and decided to stop free-soloing, that would be an accurate reaction. But, a roped climber witnessing a free-soloer falling and dieing should not lead the roped climber to stop climbing with ropes, because the two are unrelated.
"I never saw a wild thing sorry for itself. A small bird will drop frozen dead from a bough without ever having felt sorry for itself."
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Post by andy_lemon » Sun Oct 19, 2003 8:21 pm

Rain Man wrote:ANd THEN, on top of all that, isn't anything below say, 35-40' just a highball? When does a long boulder problem become a "route"? (serious question there, I'm curious.).
I think it is a problem if you do not use a rope and it is 5.10+ (or V1-ish). There are several problems that don't take gear, have no anchors, and are not bolted that are over 50 feet. Back in the day it was not unusual for climbers to free solo routes in Southern Illinois, Jackson Falls mainly. Jackson Falls is a huge canyon and back before the bolting really started you had two choices for exiting the canyon... top out or walk and walk and walk. Alot of routes got bolted by the original free soloists because they did not want other people to do so... safety bolts if you must. Look in the back of the last published Vertical Heartland guidebook, there are several routes with First Free Solos listed. Several in the 5.11 and 5.12 range that are 60 even 70 feet. Back then they were just problems that you didn't want to fall on.
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Post by vic » Sun Oct 19, 2003 11:25 pm

Climbing (with ropes) is not for everyone.
Solo climbing (with ropes) is not for everyone.
Free soloing is not for everyone.
I have soloed more than 300 routes - mostly coconut-trees-routes, and never used a single rope. I have taken a few falls from more than 70 feet in the air (with no ropes). I was lucky because I managed to catch myself on the way DOWN. This is something I learned to do at a young age while surfing big waves: you crash, your land it (on your board).
Still, soloing on rock is (to me) far safer than on a tree. I have had hand hold break on me, and I cought myself on the way down all the same. It's a matter of remaining calm and focused. I learned a lot from that.
Today, it's everyone's choice to climb (with or without). I still don't recommend it, but let's face it: Climbing probably wouldn't be what it is known as today if it weren't for the bold climbers who "did not fall". They had a rope, only to belay the second. They lived a wonderful life, and explored more than "we" probably will ever explore. Were they safe? Safe enough.

Back then, they didn't have cars able to travel at speeds of more than 150 mph. Are we safer today?

Still, I want to be an old climber, and although I will be using ropes a whole lot more for my safety, I find myself often faced with the need to climb something totally unprotected... mostly because under the circumstances, it may prove to be faster.

The circumstances matter, but above all: the climbers' state of mind, focus and ability will have to rule all other matters. It's a personal choice, just like climbing with a rope is a personal choice. Heck, they are probably non-climbers that will beg us not to get more than 10 feet off the ground with a rope - like our grand-mothers...
! Enough with all that detestation ALREADY !
Smile & be thankful for what you have.

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