A Variety of Things Can Go Wrong at An Anchor

Other Crags, Aid Climbing, Bouldering, etc...
rhunt
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Post by rhunt » Wed Apr 19, 2006 12:42 pm

Meadows wrote:I never link the draws that way - I link them through the dogbones as you would for a "cheater draw," except leave the extra biner there (or if preferred, take it off). I own slings and lockers specifically for cleaning, but found they were more of pain than anything.
Remember the thread about how you know when you are not a gumby anymore? I think you are not a gumby anymore when you learn how to link two draws together without linking them biner to biner and when you stop using the "sling&lockers / jesus sling" and just use regular quick draws. Good job Meadows...you are no longer a gumby! How does it feel?

:D

rhunt
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Post by rhunt » Wed Apr 19, 2006 12:48 pm

I have never in my 11 years of sport climbing ever needed to use any more than three quick draws to clean an anchor. That means I take one draw with me when I clean. Two already on the anchors plus my one make three.
Last edited by rhunt on Wed Apr 19, 2006 2:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Meadows
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Post by Meadows » Wed Apr 19, 2006 12:49 pm

No dude, I'm Gumby Level 10. We're all gumbies, just at different levels.

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Post by rhunt » Wed Apr 19, 2006 12:56 pm

LOL. then how do I know what level I am.
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Post by Meadows » Wed Apr 19, 2006 1:01 pm

dhoyne wrote: I was just taught that metal on metal and unnecessarily complicated anchors are bad things. It's cumbersome to clip 2-3 draws together (especially if you clip into the dogbones to avoid the metal-metal).

I'll stick with the girth hitched slings and lockers I use.
I'm really not concerned about the 0.1% extra weight I'm carrying for two slings and two lockers.
It's all personal preference - I don't find it cumbersome and I do make them redundant. I tried to find different ways to make slings more comfy (tied to me, through the legs and clipped in the back), if I ever remembered to bring them.

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Post by Wes » Wed Apr 19, 2006 1:07 pm

biner on biner on lead pro = bad. Biner on biner while statically hanging = OK. When cleaning after a lead, I just clip one draw to me and to one of the anchors. When cleaning on tr, I just chain as many draws as I need (metel to metal) to reach me and the anchor (usually two links).
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Post by Sunshine » Wed Apr 19, 2006 2:40 pm

Wes and I are gumbies for sure. Make that living on the edge gumbies. That biner to biner thing is a death trap when cleaning. Speaking of metal to metal, what are biners and hangers made of? Should we be putting slings on hangers? I am starting to get confused again. We need certified experts! We need testing!
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Post by rhunt » Wed Apr 19, 2006 2:44 pm

:lol:
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Post by dhoyne » Thu Apr 20, 2006 1:37 pm

Wes wrote:biner on biner on lead pro = bad. Biner on biner while statically hanging = OK. When cleaning after a lead, I just clip one draw to me and to one of the anchors. When cleaning on tr, I just chain as many draws as I need (metel to metal) to reach me and the anchor (usually two links).
No backup? A great deal of skill does not in any way make up for laziness. Some excellent climbers have been wounded or killed because of very simple, preventable things.
Sarcasm is a tool the weak use to avoid confrontation. People with any balls just outright lie.

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Post by pigsteak » Thu Apr 20, 2006 1:43 pm

hoyne..but what a way to goooooooooooo.......
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Post by Wes » Thu Apr 20, 2006 1:51 pm

Um, when cleaning on lead, the rope and belay is still on, and since the way I clean (almost) never involves going off belay, I am only risking a fall if the one draw was to somehow come unclipped from me. When on really short routes where the last draw might not catch me before the ground does, I will usually use another draw, or just be really aware of what I am doing.

Rules and guidlines are all good things, but even better is to have a full understanding of why you are doing the things you are, rather then just repeating what you have been taught. Being aware is much better then just being careful.

***Disclaimer*** Climbing is dangerous (and I sometimes intenetionly do things that are not so safe), so don't believe me - do your own research and come to your own conclusions with real life situtaions, not just sitting around talking theory on the internet.
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Post by rhunt » Thu Apr 20, 2006 2:33 pm

Wes wrote:Rules and guidlines are all good things, but even better is to have a full understanding of why you are doing the things you are, rather then just repeating what you have been taught. Being aware is much better then just being careful.
I couldn't agree more.

I wise man once man me aware of an interesting point. All this talk of being redundant; for those of us who use grigri's check out that single pin that you are betting it all to. That pin probably has never failed and never will but take a look at it, its pretty small and there is only one.

Another thought, I have a few friends that when cleaning a sport route only go into one bolt at the anchor. Sounds crazy huh? Yet how many of us have used a stick clip mid-route to hang the rope/draw past the crux to work the moves. When that rope is out all the way and you are about to stick clip that next bolt, what happens if the bolt(usually one that gets lots of falls) lets loose? Maybe I am just a weak wanker but I have done that a lot yet I would never think of only using one anchor bolt(that never takes a lead fall) when cleaning.

So yeah what you said Wes...
***Disclaimer*** Climbing is dangerous (and I sometimes intenetionly do things that are not so safe), so don't believe me - do your own research and come to your own conclusions with real life situtaions, not just sitting around talking theory on the internet.

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Post by pigsteak » Thu Apr 20, 2006 3:00 pm

weak wanker..I couldn't agree more :wink:

and we only use one biner to belay, linked into a single loop....sigh, I am scared to climb now...
Positive vibes brah...positive vibes.

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Post by JB » Thu Apr 20, 2006 3:40 pm

i see lots of people who "back-up" their belay loop with a sling or another biner. weird. If there was a proliferation of belay loops breaking, then I might understand this habit...

checking first is the key for me... I never take myself "off" belay until I have tested and am SURE the anchor is supporting me and that I am clipped in to whatever I choose to use (string of 'draws, daisy, runners) properly. I then also make sure that i fully back "on" belay and supported by the belayer before i consider unclipping from the anchors. that to me is where the redundancy comes from... not from using two slings.

yeah yeah... try not to die!
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rhunt
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Post by rhunt » Thu Apr 20, 2006 3:41 pm

pigsteak wrote:and we only use one biner to belay, linked into a single loop....sigh, I am scared to climb now...
Speak for yourself, I never use my "belay" loop to belay. I clip the biner into the same place I tie the rope into. LOL funny how we get stuck in our ways. I was taught way back in the day to eliminate as many links in a system as possible. Belay loop + biner + grigri pin = three links :o that's a death trap....does Mrs Pigsteak know you are so reckless in your belay techniques? I am scared for you...wanker.

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