Running and Climbing Performance

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absolutsugarsmurf
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Running and Climbing Performance

Post by absolutsugarsmurf » Thu Mar 06, 2008 5:16 am

I've recently (~2 months) been working on a training regimen for improved cardio fitness. I currently am running 4 miles a day MWF and 5 miles a day TR, before 9 am. Including a warm up and cool down, this takes from 35-50 min daily. I also climb twice weekly, on TR, for 2 hrs. I don't run on weekends because I'm usually climbing, either two days on in the gym for longer sessions or outside.

Initially I experienced some weight loss, moving from 162 to 156 in about a month. I am 6' and by my home Tanita body fat scale am currently at about 12% BF, down from 14%.

I have always been moderately strict about my diet. I will drink bourbon & beers, eat Miguel's, etc. but these are exceptions to the rule. Generally I am a turkey sandwich, carrots, and water kind of person.

My problem is that although I continue to increase the intensity and duration of my running, my weight loss has plateaued for the past month or so. Even worse, it feels to me that I am experiencing a noticeable power endurance deficit while climbing. This is especially pronounced on T,R when I both run and climb on the same days. I just don't have the strength to pull hard moves. And it isn't from pump.

Any advice from those of you who run and climb hard? I've dropped a letter grade at least in the last month and am thinking of hopping off the wagon and putting back on some pounds.

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Post by SCIN » Thu Mar 06, 2008 6:22 am

You're putting way too much time into running so you're tired for climbing. Do you want to be a strong runner or a strong climber? You need to pick one. Eat more protein too. You're breaking your body down and losing strength. Climb more, run less.
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Post by anticlmber » Thu Mar 06, 2008 6:27 am

the biggest issue i've run into with running and climbing is having enough fuel for the fire. i had/have about the same routine and couldn't get below 160-165. to lose more i had to cut so much that i couldn't recover from workouts. it's a hard medium to attain. the main thing is feeling healthy. i couldn't get to my "supposed" weight but i could run forever at a good clip so i was fine with the weight i was at. hard to do when your surrounded by forearms on sticks but it's nice to have some mass when you need it.

i would drop one day out or see if you can break through the plateau. might just need some adjustment time. another thing to do is switch it up. spend one day doing wind sprints or intervals to boost your metabolism. warm up good and then do a 3-5 25 yd sprints, a few 50s, and 2 100s and just build on that as you want. if that doesn't work i'd say bon-bons and sex.
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Post by krampus » Thu Mar 06, 2008 6:28 am

Not that running is bad, but I feel my breathing and cardio condition for climbing is best when I only run for a mile or two on an elliptical machine. Its enough to get my heart racing for about 10 minutes, but not enough to kill me for climbing in the evening. also, I don't really care what weight I am as long as my body is used to pulling it up.
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Post by anticlmber » Thu Mar 06, 2008 6:32 am

elliptical trainer!?!? oh god tell me you wear sweat bands on wrists and head in some 70s basketball shorts and a tank top with your nipples taped. that would be great. better if you have some of those 80s radio headphones with the dual antennas.
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Post by Myke Dronez » Thu Mar 06, 2008 6:41 am

better taped than bloody... or so I've heard. Running is boring anyways, riding a bike here and there (no lycra) seems to keep me slim and trim without burning me out.
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Post by SCIN » Thu Mar 06, 2008 6:46 am

I've been wanting to trade in my treadmill for an elliptical machine because my knees are quickly going. If climbing is all you care about then why crash your knees just to maintain some decent cardio? Dropping over and over from the top of a bouldering wall is bad enough.
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Post by Meadows » Thu Mar 06, 2008 6:53 am

It takes a lot of time for your body to adapt to that type of training. If you're not training for races, that much running isn't necessary. Add hills and then add speed to those hills or add distance to one of the days. And as Ray said, eat more protein.

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Post by jordancolburn » Thu Mar 06, 2008 7:14 am

treadmills seem to kill my knees more than running outside. I'm building up to doing a half-marathon and right now I'm doing 4-6 miles on MWF mornings. It seems to actually help my climbing(i climb 2-3 days a week) My breathing is a little calmer and my endourance seems to be up.

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Post by der uber » Thu Mar 06, 2008 7:18 am

Horst says 30 or so minutes of cardio a week is plenty (unless you're going alpine). Beyond that, you're time is better spent doing climbing specific drills to inccrease strength.

I have been trying ot do about 30 min cardio on my "off" days, just to maintain some general fitness that my climbing specific training doesn't address.

At some point, you're weightloss will plateau anyway. Eat proteins, do some bouldering and/or strength drills, and don't run on your climbing days.

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Post by mcrib » Thu Mar 06, 2008 7:22 am

stop eating and then smoke a cigarette whenever you feel hungary and the pounds will melt off.
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Post by bcombs » Thu Mar 06, 2008 7:42 am

The latest R&I has an article from Mike Doyle about training. He mentions doing some light running 10-20 mins before starting your climbing training workout to help warm up and get going. I've been doing it and I can say I feel more aware and alert when I start climbing. Before I was doing this I was always lathargic for the first 20 mins or so of bouldering (mostly evenings). So that has helped a bit.

For the rest of us just trying to get out of moderate grades though I think just climbing alot and focusing on technique is best.

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Post by whilojo » Thu Mar 06, 2008 8:22 am

If you're anything like me, you need at least one day of complete rest a week (i.e. no running or climbing. I do yoga on my "rest" day, though.) & I certainly wouldn't run my longest distance on the days I climb. The reason you've noticed a loss of power is because your legs are tired and haven't recovered from running.

I've struggled for years with adding a running program to my climbing. Years ago I was a "runner"--training for 30-40 miles a week. Now that my focus has shifted to climbing, I don't run nearly as much because I've found that it has a negative effect on my climbing. I run 2-3 times a week, but only for 2-4 miles at a time, and if I run the same day I climb, I climb first, then run after.

Here's another thought: how much flexibility are you losing because of running? I also found this to be detrimental to climbing, so I counteract with yoga.
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Post by krampus » Thu Mar 06, 2008 8:38 am

anticlmber wrote:elliptical trainer!?!? oh god tell me you wear sweat bands on wrists and head in some 70s basketball shorts and a tank top with your nipples taped. that would be great. better if you have some of those 80s radio headphones with the dual antennas.
nah man, same shorts and tank top but these days its all blue tooth and food network for me.

The reason that running 10 or 20 minutes before you climb is mainly to get your core temperature up because you bodies enzymes work better at using (or creating, I forget) ATP when at a higher temperature. This allows your muscles to function more efficiently.
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Re: Running and Climbing Performance

Post by dbrayack » Thu Mar 06, 2008 9:11 am

absolutsugarsmurf wrote:I've recently (~2 months) been working on a training regimen for improved cardio fitness. I currently am running 4 miles a day MWF and 5 miles a day TR, before 9 am. Including a warm up and cool down, this takes from 35-50 min daily. I also climb twice weekly, on TR, for 2 hrs. I don't run on weekends because I'm usually climbing, either two days on in the gym for longer sessions or outside.

Initially I experienced some weight loss, moving from 162 to 156 in about a month. I am 6' and by my home Tanita body fat scale am currently at about 12% BF, down from 14%.

I have always been moderately strict about my diet. I will drink bourbon & beers, eat Miguel's, etc. but these are exceptions to the rule. Generally I am a turkey sandwich, carrots, and water kind of person.

My problem is that although I continue to increase the intensity and duration of my running, my weight loss has plateaued for the past month or so. Even worse, it feels to me that I am experiencing a noticeable power endurance deficit while climbing. This is especially pronounced on T,R when I both run and climb on the same days. I just don't have the strength to pull hard moves. And it isn't from pump.

Any advice from those of you who run and climb hard? I've dropped a letter grade at least in the last month and am thinking of hopping off the wagon and putting back on some pounds.
What is your body shape? Are you naturally strong, but retain fat?

My problem has always been my weight - I can hold on forever and boulder HARD, but really for me to push it hard, I need to RUN and run hard. I tend to spend a 6 week run cycle maybe 4 times a year where I go from about 165 to about 158 - I have to run hard and consistent to get any lower than that though. I use my Tanita scale as well and am around 10-12 percent.

Do you run fast or slow?

I found that if I run slow and flat, but long, I burn fat, but don't build leg muscle...
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