Who does it belong to?

Posts here will show on front page
Post Reply

Who does it belong to?

Poll ended at Fri May 06, 2011 4:28 pm

Me …
2
4%
Them …
22
48%
Us …
16
35%
Who cares; I’m going to do what I want to anyway …
2
4%
I don’t care, I got my project …
4
9%
 
Total votes: 46

User avatar
pigsteak
The Crocodile Hunter
The Crocodile Hunter
Posts: 9684
Joined: Tue Jun 17, 2003 2:49 pm
Location: Like Prince my name has now changed..please call me Piglovely.

Re: Who does it belong to?

Post by pigsteak » Mon Apr 11, 2011 7:27 am

third person always signals a neurosis....
Positive vibes brah...positive vibes.

Crankmas
Fred Garvin, male prostitute
Posts: 3965
Joined: Wed Jan 15, 2003 1:24 pm
Location: Winchester, KY

Re: Who does it belong to?

Post by Crankmas » Mon Apr 11, 2011 9:55 am

Are gold fish reaping the rewards of the advancing value of gold??? Are gold fish a good investment??

User avatar
climb2core
Loser
Loser
Posts: 2224
Joined: Wed Jun 02, 2010 12:04 pm

Re: Who does it belong to?

Post by climb2core » Mon Apr 11, 2011 10:08 am

Crankmas wrote:Are gold fish reaping the rewards of the advancing value of gold??? Are gold fish a good investment??

Either your wit is over my head or you are a nit-wit ;)

bob
Shaman
Posts: 108
Joined: Wed Nov 13, 2002 9:28 pm

Re: Who does it belong to?

Post by bob » Mon Apr 11, 2011 10:24 am

I’m sorry I wasn’t clear. My concern is that, unless individuals police themselves, property owners will need to step in and police for them and this will likely lead to closures.

Torrent seems to concentrate the access issues. Whatever happens there is happening in my face. If the climbing at Torrent were out on the “north forty” many of the issues would be less pressing and easier to deal with. I look at what happens at Torrent as an “accelerated model” of climbing access on private property. It should not be incumbent on a property owner to manage; those receiving free access should be able to manage themselves. If the act of granting access comes with the requirement to actively manage then access will become endangered. A property owner should not have to manage unless they wish (are not required) to do so … they should be able to say “these are the rules” and expect that they be respected. The only management I personally wish to do involves limiting the crowds. I do not want to have a toilet or any other installation that I am responsible for or have to look at. I do not wish to have to manage to the extent that the Weber’s have chosen to. I will, however, not take the almost entirely hands off style of Grant Stephens as there is both a business and a home on my property.

There is a lifetime of rock from Menifee Co. to the Tennessee border and a substantial portion of it is on someone else’s land. When you, the community, approach another land owner regarding access to their land for climbing do you not think that the owner will look to other private owners for guidance and some idea as to what to expect from the act of granting access. If all they see is the need to “manage” they may have reservations regarding access. What you do or do not do affects others … always.

toad857
Loser
Loser
Posts: 1691
Joined: Thu Dec 13, 2007 12:31 pm

Re: Who does it belong to?

Post by toad857 » Mon Apr 11, 2011 10:34 am

bob wrote:...unless individuals police themselves, property owners will need to step in and police for them and this will likely lead to closures.
If anyone reading this thread doesn't feel like going through 9 pages of crap, just read the above sentence, and all should be clear.

Police yourselves.

Encourage others to do the same.

User avatar
climb2core
Loser
Loser
Posts: 2224
Joined: Wed Jun 02, 2010 12:04 pm

Re: Who does it belong to?

Post by climb2core » Mon Apr 11, 2011 10:58 am

Dr. Bob, thanks for taking a moment to clarify your concerns. There is obviously a community of climbers that DO care and DO respect your simple rules. The problem is how to effectively "Police our own". Seems to me like primary means must be education and stewardship by the people that do climb at Torrent Falls. However, there will always be someone that will not follow your rules. For that I can only apologize and respect your decision should you wish to remove all public access to your home. If you do choose to keep it open, would you consider a "Stewards of Torrent Falls". A committee to work on educating and enforcing the rules of Torrent Falls as well as maintenance and improvement. It seems like the community of climbers could try to give back a little to someone that has stepped up large on our behalf.

Thanks for the opportunities I have had to climb at Torrent already. I would be more than happy to contribute on this committee... I have unfinished business on that 12 wall ;)

bob
Shaman
Posts: 108
Joined: Wed Nov 13, 2002 9:28 pm

Re: Who does it belong to?

Post by bob » Mon Apr 11, 2011 11:41 am

Again, I think you miss my point. I don’t want a committee, I don’t want a group of stewards, I don’t want to have to build signs, take out ads, etc.; I want simple respect for a group of relatively minimal rules. If each and every case of access requires a committee or a group of stewards do you not think that there will be problems with access overall?

bob
Shaman
Posts: 108
Joined: Wed Nov 13, 2002 9:28 pm

Re: Who does it belong to?

Post by bob » Mon Apr 11, 2011 11:42 am

I do appreciate the offer though ...

User avatar
727foxtree
Gumby
Gumby
Posts: 22
Joined: Wed Sep 03, 2008 9:51 am

Re: Who does it belong to?

Post by 727foxtree » Mon Apr 11, 2011 12:08 pm

Okay, I've been reading a lot of these posts and I can't seem to find what exactly has been done that needs policing. I'm asking because I honestly can't seem to find it. Please list them out so we can actually "police" this stuff.

Thanks!

dustonian
BANNED
Posts: 3089
Joined: Mon Jul 27, 2009 10:46 am
Location: Lex/Zoe

Re: Who does it belong to?

Post by dustonian » Mon Apr 11, 2011 12:15 pm

Correct me if I'm wrong:

- Dogs (?)
- People crapping on the trail, under crags, leaving TP, finger tape, energy bar wrappers, cigarette butts, etc. behind (sadly frequent; unfortunately I never catch them in the "act," but everyone who climbs at Torrent or anywhere else should walk out of the crag with a small grocery bag full of misc. gathered trash)
- People poaching Torrent without registering online, or coming with more than 3 in their group

Anything else? Let's kick these fools' asses!

User avatar
climb2core
Loser
Loser
Posts: 2224
Joined: Wed Jun 02, 2010 12:04 pm

Re: Who does it belong to?

Post by climb2core » Mon Apr 11, 2011 12:25 pm

727foxtree wrote:Okay, I've been reading a lot of these posts and I can't seem to find what exactly has been done that needs policing. I'm asking because I honestly can't seem to find it. Please list them out so we can actually "police" this stuff.

Thanks!
Someone took a dump on his property... and the caretakers dog ate it. Policing is referring to following a few simple rules that Dr. Bob has made in return for the opportunity to climb at Torrent. Thought they were worth posting:

Please do not shortcut or stray from established trails. Many hours of work have gone into creating an environment that will allow the re-growth of the habitat around Kentucky's tallest waterfall. Access to Torrent Falls is limited in order to limit the environmental impact that overuse creates, please respect this request and register through this web site … if no slots are available consider climbing elsewhere.

In order to climb at Torrent Falls, you must follow some simple rules:

* Climbing without being registered is STRICTLY prohibited.
Access to the property is limited to the hours of 8 a.m. until 8 p.m. unless specific permission for an extension has been granted by the owner of the property, Torrent Falls LLC, Robert Matheny, manager.
* On your climbing day, you must register here at TorrentFallsClimbing.com, This will give you an access code for the gate at the front of the property.
* Do not park at the church. They will tow your car. Parking space is limited to 3 vehicles, parking is only allowed in the lower lot by the old wagon … park neatly. Do not block access to any of the cabins. Carpool
* The top section of the registration receipt page MUST be printed off and placed visably on the front dashboard of your vehicle.
* Misuse of receipts, or the registration system, will result in your car being towed and public ridicule heaped upon you.
* Stay on trails and read, and obey, signs regarding limited access to areas.
* Do not stray from established trails. Do not “short cut” through the woods. Do not damage any natural feature or vegetation, respect all barriers and do not cross.
* No Pooping. You MUST use a WAG Bag or equivalent. There are no exceptions. Not even you. Dispose of human waste in accordance with “leave no trace” ethics, e.g. the use of “wag bags” for all fecal material, do not bury or otherwise leave “in situ”, similarly pack out and properly dispose of all litter including (but not limited to) food scraps. Do not urinate inside the drip line of any cliff; likewise do not urinate near or on any trail.
* No Trundling allowed. Don't know what it is? find out and don’t do it.
* No Fires. Even though you may see the fire-pit, YOU are NOT to build a fire.
* No tent, car, or any other form of camping. Rent a cabin if you want to stay the night.
*
Access to and use of the Torrent Falls property is granted without charge pursuant to KRS 411.190. Those who wish to avail themselves of this opportunity must read and sign a waiver and agree to abide by the rules. Any individual not complying with this requirement will be considered to be trespassing and treated accordingly. All individuals accessing the property are warned that the property is not in any way maintained for access by the general public and that entry is undertaken expressly at the risk of individuals so choosing. Any individual wishing to hike, rock climb or otherwise make use of the property is warned that any of these activities carry with them the risk of serious injury and or death and that the individual so choosing is entirely and solely responsible for assessing the risk of any activity and will accept any and all consequences, good or bad, of such decisions. All artificial installations found on the property have been placed solely for the convenience of the owner of the property; any use of these installations is undertaken solely at the risk and discretion of the individual so choosing to utilize them. Any individual accessing the Torrent Falls property with pets will obtain permission from the manager of Torrent Falls LLC, Robert Matheny, and will assume any and all responsibility for the behavior of their animals as well their waste.
* The gate at the drive is an automatic gate. The timer for gate closure is set for 10 seconds. Please allow for adequate time for each vehicle to exit to avoid damage to the gate or to your vehicle. Please do not give out the access code.
Thank you

User avatar
Clevis Hitch
My Name is Joe.
Posts: 1461
Joined: Mon Oct 12, 2009 1:10 pm

Re: Who does it belong to?

Post by Clevis Hitch » Mon Apr 11, 2011 12:51 pm

bob wrote:Again, I think you miss my point. I don’t want a committee, I don’t want a group of stewards, I don’t want to have to build signs, take out ads, etc.; I want simple respect for a group of relatively minimal rules. If each and every case of access requires a committee or a group of stewards do you not think that there will be problems with access overall?

If you don't want a committee to police and deal with the problems and you don't want the facilities to handle the crowds. Then I see that you have no other choice than to close it to climbing for the general public, because given an oportunity, every one of your rules will be broken in a timely manner. Just like they have in the past.

You've done enough bob, You gave them the southern region, let them go shit there. This won't affect your legacy. ten years from now they'll be erecting a bronze statue of you in the southern region. Like Daniel Boone...

Go ahead and close it...
If you give a man a match, he'll be warm for a minute. If you set him on fire, he'll be warm for the rest of his life!

bob
Shaman
Posts: 108
Joined: Wed Nov 13, 2002 9:28 pm

Re: Who does it belong to?

Post by bob » Mon Apr 11, 2011 1:01 pm

Joe, I seem to see that you have already closed it ... not sure what to do there.

User avatar
Clevis Hitch
My Name is Joe.
Posts: 1461
Joined: Mon Oct 12, 2009 1:10 pm

Re: Who does it belong to?

Post by Clevis Hitch » Mon Apr 11, 2011 1:09 pm

bob wrote:Joe, I seem to see that you have already closed it ... not sure what to do there.

well bob, just trying to help you out. This whole thing would've never been a problem for me...So I'm assuming that you're going to go my way and close it?
If you give a man a match, he'll be warm for a minute. If you set him on fire, he'll be warm for the rest of his life!

toad857
Loser
Loser
Posts: 1691
Joined: Thu Dec 13, 2007 12:31 pm

Re: Who does it belong to?

Post by toad857 » Mon Apr 11, 2011 1:18 pm

yeah, dude, you're coming in loud and clear. we get it. but you're trying to turn your TWO CENTS into a million god damn dollars. yelling it over and over and over (and starting multiple additional threads to that effect) is only making it more annoying.

If there is an acceptable and reasonable solution out there, you are only getting in the way with this crap. We hear you, man. We hear you.

Post Reply