ACCESS TO ROADSIDE - closed unttil further notice

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GStephens
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Re: ACCESS TO ROADSIDE - closed unttil further notice

Post by GStephens » Wed May 25, 2011 8:34 am

pigsteak wrote:grant, we know each other so I am clearly not trying to be a jerk....Twinkie has the exact same chain draws. I thought it was a bad idea there too, btw.
I never considered that anyone would ever be so bold as to hang chains on such a visible route inside the RRG proper. I suspect the USFS does not yet know about this, but they will discover it someday. I do not relish their response given the extraordinary access problems we have seen there historically. Bolts are one thing, but will the USFS really allow climbers to hang chains in a geological area?

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Re: ACCESS TO ROADSIDE - closed unttil further notice

Post by Yasmeen » Wed May 25, 2011 8:35 am

pigsteak wrote:anchors on trad lines too ahab? or just the bolts that are an inconvenience for you?
You have to fit it into the song, Piggie, or it doesn't work.

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ahab
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Re: ACCESS TO ROADSIDE - closed unttil further notice

Post by ahab » Wed May 25, 2011 9:07 am

pigsteak wrote:anchors on trad lines too ahab? or just the bolts that are an inconvenience for you?
yes.
not all that serious, btw. just checking that the rrc.com piggy bot is still functioning properly. carry on.
buy the Ticket take the Ride

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Re: ACCESS TO ROADSIDE - closed unttil further notice

Post by bcombs » Wed May 25, 2011 9:19 am

We always talk about charging money and then we end up talking about KY use laws. That is fine, but isn't most of the land we climb on in the DBNF? The DBNF implemented the Recreation Fee Program which requires payment for parking on a 1 day, 3 day or annual basis. Enforcement is always brought up as the gating issue, but I don't see hordes of patrol cars from the USFS, just a couple on busy nights. I do see people forking over money at Shell to buy the passes. The USFS offers zero guarantee of a safe playground. I'm sure it is different when considering public vs. private land, but has someone put the proper amount of research into confirming this is truly not an option? http://www.fs.fed.us/r8/boone/recreatio ... ndex.shtml

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Re: ACCESS TO ROADSIDE - closed unttil further notice

Post by caribe » Wed May 25, 2011 9:26 am

bcombs wrote:We always talk about charging money and then we end up talking about KY use laws.
The USFS charges you to park overnight and that is all. I think a climbing venue could charge you to park at a site. A climbing venue could put up a sign saying something like pay 5$ to park; climbing, hiking and mountain biking or whatever are free of charge and you do these activities at your own risk.

If a car doesn't buy a ticket to park then you are going for Clevis' plan to tow them at the driver's expense.

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Re: ACCESS TO ROADSIDE - closed unttil further notice

Post by bcombs » Wed May 25, 2011 9:31 am

caribe wrote:
bcombs wrote:We always talk about charging money and then we end up talking about KY use laws.
The USFS charges you to park overnight and that is all. I think a climbing venue could charge you to park at a site. A climbing venue could put up a sign saying something like pay 5$ to park; climbing, hiking and mountain biking or whatever are free of charge and you do these activities at your own risk.
That's what I mean. We are always quick to shoot down money and cite insurance problems and use laws. Let's implement a pay to park strategy for a few key places on the PMRP and see how it goes. The funds are used to maintain the lots, trails and to pay a resource, assigned by the coalition, a wage to monitor and enforce? If someone gets to park without a pass, leave a note and log the license. Three violations and they get towed. Yank a car or three out of the sore heel lot and things will change quickly.

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Re: ACCESS TO ROADSIDE - closed unttil further notice

Post by Meadows » Wed May 25, 2011 9:33 am

Who will monitor the parking lot? The USFS has paid staff to monitor theirs, but is it worth it to private owners to pay someone to monitor? And can a non-profit make profit on parking?

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Re: ACCESS TO ROADSIDE - closed unttil further notice

Post by Climbingrocks » Wed May 25, 2011 9:34 am

bcombs wrote:
caribe wrote:
bcombs wrote:We always talk about charging money and then we end up talking about KY use laws.
The USFS charges you to park overnight and that is all. I think a climbing venue could charge you to park at a site. A climbing venue could put up a sign saying something like pay 5$ to park; climbing, hiking and mountain biking or whatever are free of charge and you do these activities at your own risk.
That's what I mean. We are always quick to shoot down money and cite insurance problems and use laws. Let's implement a pay to park strategy for a few key places on the PMRP and see how it goes. The funds are used to maintain the lots, trails and to pay a resource, assigned by the coalition, a wage to monitor and enforce? If someone gets to park without a pass, leave a note and log the license. Three violations and they get towed. Yank a car or three out of the sore heel lot and things will change quickly.
Great Idea!!!!!!!!

Spread the word that you have to pay to "park" in the Red
Last edited by Climbingrocks on Wed May 25, 2011 9:43 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: ACCESS TO ROADSIDE - closed unttil further notice

Post by dustonian » Wed May 25, 2011 9:35 am

Sell them at RRO, Miguel's, LOA, True North, etc... 10% for their trouble. Rest divvied up between Graining Fork, RRGCC, & maybe Muir Valley & Torrent (if the Webers & Bob want in), % based on visitor-day estimates from 2010. Annual pass $50, 1-day $5. Bet we could buy a crag a year minimum.
Last edited by dustonian on Wed May 25, 2011 9:44 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: ACCESS TO ROADSIDE - closed unttil further notice

Post by Crankmas » Wed May 25, 2011 9:44 am

Build the Dam

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Re: ACCESS TO ROADSIDE - closed unttil further notice

Post by ReachHigh » Wed May 25, 2011 9:45 am

Meadows wrote:Who will monitor the parking lot? The USFS has paid staff to monitor theirs, but is it worth it to private owners to pay someone to monitor? And can a non-profit make profit on parking?
a lot of non profits have revenue. it just needs to be reinvested, IANAA (I am not an accountant)
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Re: ACCESS TO ROADSIDE - closed unttil further notice

Post by pkananen » Wed May 25, 2011 9:46 am

What if the parking lot was owned by a separate entity, and wasn't non-profit? The land is free to use - if someone drops you off, or you bike in, you don't pay a dime. Access to the lot costs x per car.

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Re: ACCESS TO ROADSIDE - closed unttil further notice

Post by bob » Wed May 25, 2011 9:47 am

Do log houses float?

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Re: ACCESS TO ROADSIDE - closed unttil further notice

Post by caribe » Wed May 25, 2011 9:50 am

Meadows wrote:Who will monitor the parking lot? The USFS has paid staff to monitor theirs, but is it worth it to private owners to pay someone to monitor? And can a non-profit make profit on parking?
You don't have to pay anyone to monitor anything. Have volunteers spot monitor here and there. People are basically honest. 99% of the people will pay. If the 1% that repeatedly try to get off free have to retrieve their auto from a service at $120 ~every other year they will learn to do the math at some point.

Hopefully people understand that the parking ticket is basic, but that they should still donate to the organizations that safeguard climbing.

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Re: ACCESS TO ROADSIDE - closed unttil further notice

Post by climb2core » Wed May 25, 2011 9:54 am

bcombs wrote:
caribe wrote:
bcombs wrote:We always talk about charging money and then we end up talking about KY use laws.
The USFS charges you to park overnight and that is all. I think a climbing venue could charge you to park at a site. A climbing venue could put up a sign saying something like pay 5$ to park; climbing, hiking and mountain biking or whatever are free of charge and you do these activities at your own risk.
That's what I mean. We are always quick to shoot down money and cite insurance problems and use laws. Let's implement a pay to park strategy for a few key places on the PMRP and see how it goes. The funds are used to maintain the lots, trails and to pay a resource, assigned by the coalition, a wage to monitor and enforce? If someone gets to park without a pass, leave a note and log the license. Three violations and they get towed. Yank a car or three out of the sore heel lot and things will change quickly.
Not sure parking would have the desired effect:

Some work carried out in the United Kingdom suggests that reducing access for climbers may have an impact on
the popularity of sites. Realising that simple entry fees to parks were not a useful barrier, Hanley, Alvarez-Farizo
and Shaw (2002b) tested the implications of introducing car parking fees and measures to increase access time at
three popular sites in Scotland. The study found that ‘a 2h increase in walk-in time in the Cairngorms reduces
predicted visits by 44% … £5/day car-parking fee reduces predicted trips to the Cairngorms by 31%’ Hanley
(2002b:167). However, it was identified that knock-on effects would be felt at other, substitute sites. It is
suggested that such policies may be rather reactive, and in the long run do nothing to combat the problems
resultant from the increasing popularity of rock-based activities.

Paying for parking may deter parking at ONE crag... but if you have to pay to park at all crags then it won't matter. I spend $100 on gas every trip down. What is $10 for parking? What would be more effective is making an extended approach... make the entrance at the far end of the Preserve...

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