pigsteak wrote:art, you complete me.
awww, aren't you two sweet.
So let me get this straight...every climber going to leave draws overnight needs to have a rack of steel permadraws to leave up on whatever route they are planning on trying more than one day? that's bullshit, not the community/sport/rrg norm, and completely asinine to expect of the greater community. First, there is nothing wrong with aluminum biners, they have been used for years and are completely safe if taken care of. Second, not everyone has a huge budget and can afford a rack of 20 dollar biners, to expect that is ridiculous and you know it.the lurkist wrote:Dustin is mistaken in that I wanted to or did leave gear. Negative, good buddy. I don't climb at that cliff frequently enough to leave gear there.
Frankly I am with Dustin. The problem is with the mank. Unfortunately the crew did a poor job of discriminating, and if they had only removed the shitty gear and left the PD no one would be mad at each other. I think the thing to do is leave the low easy ones (the easy 12s or anything easily cleanable) hangable and stripable and use the PD of the routes they are needed for. Fewer fixed routes with state of the art gear are more easily monitored.
The mank is the problem and the mank occurs because well meaning people, like you Michelle, leave your gear and then abandon it/fali to clean it for a few seasons then we have faded draws and ginsu biners. That is the problem that PDs were supposed to be the solution to. And according to Cletus and one of his buds, over half of the gear removed was shite. So, if we are to believed Cletus et al, shockingly, shit still happens on the Undertow Wall.
Why am I'm being such a mean contrarian, Michelle? Is that your question? Because I don't want to climb on your gear, and you can't make me. But I may want to climb on the route your gear is on. So unless you hold the deed to the route or the cliff, please do not insist that I use your gear. So lets compromise, if you insist on leaving your gear up a route and don't want to clean it, please leave up the community standard of PD with steal biners. Kay? Then maybe I will be reassured that at least the gear dwelling is not some ginsu biner ready to shread my cord.
And fuck you Ray. Whatever your score is on redriverAnu, and just because you are the high lord priest guide book author with all ripply muscles and a mean arm tattoo, and just because you have your own secret cliff, and just because I have been out for a while, and just because I am old and weak and stiff and smell bad like an old man in a nursing home, make no mistake, Ray. I am coming for you, my friend. I am going for the gold. I will do your projects. I will best your score. I am BACK!
Funny thing is that the "crowds" aren't complaining at all...it's everyone who "cares". You are all the ones complaining...pigsteak wrote:hmmmm, so maybe the crowds will leave if it is miserable at the Red. boom..mission accomplished by the krue.
SCIN wrote:Shear, very untrue. That's a fact.
climb2core wrote:Lets be real, PD's are here to stay as are project draws.
There ya go. Can this thread be over now?tutugirl wrote:...the crowds including members of The Crew will go to warmer climates for climbing and bouldering there they will not complain about the crowds or the draws...
Dustin- You're wrong. Climbtek's were in the minority of the draws pulled from the undertow. Quite a bit of the non-climbtek steel draws were junk. Safety was a motivating factor in removing the pd's as I stated in the many posts I have made on this website. I can see how you and Ray missed that seeing as neither of you have been constructive in the slightest.dustonian wrote:Approximately zero? Of the rebolted routes, we had just checked them all during the summer, and many were brand-new steel PDs from ClimbTech. The safety thing is a lame attempt to excuse that big stinky fart back in October. Still, I personally feel removing the aluminum stuff off the 12- routes on the right side of the Undertow was a good idea. Removing the new steel stuff on the steeper routes was plain stoopid.
I disagree with this "ethic" as do most others. Just because you had one arbitrary meeting of self-appointed rulemakers does not mean anything was either "accepted" or "agreed upon." Encouraging the wholesale removal of fixed gear in sport climbing is contrary to international consensus and an extremely untenable, foolish, and dubious precedent to support.cletuswilcox wrote: Michelle- If I'm not mistaken the accepted and agreed upon ethic at the red is that any gear left on the wall is considered abandoned gear and is subject to removal (pd's, project draws, etc.) and that this is for liability concerns. This is Hugh's point I think.