PDs at Lode

[krampus]

Far be it from me to dwell on a raw nerve or to even give up the chance to exploit the obvious rift between ...

Michelle; you are still a super hero, even though Hugh was bagging on you he wasn't trying to be "mean". Even though you didn't show up for the meeting, you also didn't show up for your own reward(well deserved to!)so all things being equal, you are even steven.

Hugh; Hugh you are creepy tall. I feel that at the last meeting we may have exchanged brains. Gawd help you if we did!

...and moving along...Look we could dwell on this negative bull****! until we are all over run with gumby/zombies. But lets be adults and forget the name calling and finger pointing and, just put that in a little box and forget about it until we can come up with a direction. There is a solution.

We should brainstorm this out right now and see what we come up with.

Wow, Clevis takes the moral high ground . Mercury is officially in retrograde

edited to follow suit

[krampus]

Ok, seems like we are at 3 possibilities (with room for variants)

1a) NO Permadraws or project draws
b) No Permadraws, individual project ok
c) No Project draws, Permdraws ok

2.) Limited Permadraws (system for application and management yet to be determined). Project draws ok with emphasis on individual accountability for removal reinforced to prevent abandonment.

3.) Unlimited Permadraws and project draws.


Any other option?

I vote for #2

I like #2, seems a compromise is usually the best option.

[clif]

edited to follow suit

Bully on and to the spirits, Sirs, a colloquy and evening of whist will be held in honoraria. Brandy the bloody name of civility!

[krampus]

edited to follow suit

Bully on and to the spirits, Sirs, a colloquy and evening of whist will be held in honoraria. Brandy the bloody name of civility!

clif, I hope I get to share the wall with you sometime

[Clevis Hitch]

I think that there is a difference between Project draws, which may be acceptable. But "permanent" draws which is gear that is abandoned to public domain.

Agree/Disagree?

[climb2core]

I think that there is a difference between Project draws, which may be acceptable. But "permanent" draws which is gear that is abandoned to public domain.

Agree/Disagree?

There is a difference...

Technically, all gear left is abandoned. However, climbers tend to respect the ethic that project draws will be reclaimed by the owner.

Permadraws are viewed as more community owned, donated and left to the public domain with no intent of reclaiming.

The acceptability of one, or both is what we are debating.

[clif]

clif, I hope I get to share the wall with you sometime

i'd be my pleasure i'm sure. fair warning though, you know how they talk about a face made for radio? well, i've climbed so little and cyberspace is so big i'm about to move into my mom's basement and start a blog about cupcakes.

[Clevis Hitch]

Shannon proposed that there was a difference betweeen abandoned and unattended property. I think that the unattended property has to have some sort of qualifier, like its on public land, not private.

I propose that if you are going to be leaving project draws and they are not abandoned or given over to public dispensation. Should be required to be tagged with the owners data. I mean if you care enough to care enough then you tag your shit. Of course this does encroach upon the time honored tradition of taking booty.

personally I'm cool with what has happened. The taking and the rub afterwards. I just don't want to see some sort of onerous rules take effect or any one to gain the authority to tell anyone how to conduct their experience. Wouldn't that be the shit to get strapped down with another arbitrary entity?

[dustonian]

I just don't want to see some sort of onerous rules take effect or any one to gain the authority to tell anyone how to conduct their experience. Wouldn't that be the shit to get strapped down with another arbitrary entity?

+1

[climb2core]

I would rather not qualify project gear as un attended but with an owner. Might save the "owner" a lawsuit for providing unsafe gear.M

[c-foot]

Don't eat Clif's cupcakes. You have been warned.

[Clevis Hitch]

I gotta be honest, I don't think you can leave gear in the woods and expect to keep ownership of it while you are away and not open yourself up to a lawsuit. Just the questions of law abound. The sad thing is that if you climbed on someone elses gear and there was a malfunction and you died even though you were a aware of the chances you were taking and your family decided to take it up and they found out who put the draw up six months ago. It could cost you a shit ton in legal fees fighting it in the least. If they could construe assurance somehow you'd be hung out to dry.

I think the stance that we all need to take as far as fixed gear is concerned is that everything is suspect.

[pigsteak]

I am not a medical doctor, I just play one on TV.......

[Clevis Hitch]

so ask a question or propose a solution, rise above the usual side-line bomb throwing and at least make an effort to contribute...i am.

[krampus]

I just don't want to see some sort of onerous rules take effect or any one to gain the authority to tell anyone how to conduct their experience. Wouldn't that be the shit to get strapped down with another arbitrary entity?

+1 for sure