The crowds are not going away... So what do we do?

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climb2core
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Re: The crowds are not going away... So what do we do?

Post by climb2core » Fri Oct 21, 2011 2:25 pm

Artsay wrote:
Andrew wrote:The crowds are not going to go away, so what do we do as a community? I am not talking about just fixed draws, nor am I blaming any one person or group of people, but how do we as a climbing community safely manage the large amount of people. We have more parking, camping, and businesses catering to climbers than ever. How do we manage all of this?
I thought I was answering Andrew's question on things we can change to manage the surge in visitors?
I'll edit my post to say it's not 100% of the problem, I was wrong in saying that but I do think it's a significant factor.
It is not with in the the power or scope of the climbing community (nor should it be) to determine the business practices of Miguels or any other business in the Red for that matter... While it may contribute in some way to the overall crowds, it is not worth focusing on as we can do nothing to change this "problem" and it will only serve to piss off the people we want working with us. Dario may not let you climb at the Lode if you keep this up ;)

Just hackin on ya Michelle.
Last edited by climb2core on Fri Oct 21, 2011 2:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: The crowds are not going away... So what do we do?

Post by Rotarypwr345704 » Fri Oct 21, 2011 2:28 pm

Michelle, I do see your point, I honestly do. But as someone who has been in charge of not only myself, but a college group for quite a few years prior, we went to the Red because of its quality. Period. I know not every group is like this, but when Climbers from Orlando decide that they're going to make a trip, and it 8 hours to LRC, 11 hours to Foster's and 13 hours to the Red, we ALWAYS pick the Red because of it's quality. And quite frankly, we could care less if was$40 a night to camp. We finally get a chance to go climbing outside, we're going where we have real quality. And for our group price wasn't an issue because as a club organization, we had X amount of money to spend and what we didn't spend, we had to give back and then they wouldn't give us as much money the next year.
I think whatever we do to limit numbers will be futile. We just have to learn the best way to safely handles them.
I fell for the everyone-shut-up-and-ill-donate-money scheme. -Ray Ellington, guidebook gawd

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Re: The crowds are not going away... So what do we do?

Post by dustonian » Fri Oct 21, 2011 2:37 pm

Take the kiddies to the New, it's a way better climbing area.

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Re: The crowds are not going away... So what do we do?

Post by rhunt » Fri Oct 21, 2011 2:47 pm

Agreed the New is better(imo), three reasons people don't go there:

camping is limited, expensive and sucks
when it rains you're screwed
no common hang out scene like Miguel's - Roger's is close but not really..
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Re: The crowds are not going away... So what do we do?

Post by dustonian » Fri Oct 21, 2011 2:48 pm

Yeah, but the climbing is better quality on average, there's way fewer idiots, and Fayetteville kicks ass!

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Re: The crowds are not going away... So what do we do?

Post by EricDorsey » Fri Oct 21, 2011 2:52 pm

Rotarypwr345704 wrote:when Climbers from Orlando decide that they're going to make a trip, and it 8 hours to LRC, 11 hours to Foster's and 13 hours to the Red, we ALWAYS pick the Red because of it's quality.
I guess I dont get that point... You are passing other CLOSER and less CROWDED areas just to come to the red. Open your horizons, there are tons of awesome places in the south to climb just as good as the red. I don't understand such close minded people, but I guess thats why the red is so crowded cause everyone thinks its the only worthwhile place in the south to climb...

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Re: The crowds are not going away... So what do we do?

Post by dustonian » Fri Oct 21, 2011 2:54 pm

Agreed, the Red is maybe 3rd or even 4th among SE climbing areas in my book... unique for sure, but kind of a scene with lots of shitty routes and sand mixed in with the good stuff. Maybe I just live too close.

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Re: The crowds are not going away... So what do we do?

Post by rhunt » Fri Oct 21, 2011 2:55 pm

dustonian wrote:Yeah, but the climbing is better quality on average, there's way fewer idiots, and Fayetteville kicks ass!
competely agree!!
I live in Columbus, Ohio and for me the drive to the Red and the New are the same distance. But what kept me coming to the Red weekend after weekend was the easy of camping/lodging - I mostly stayed in campers at cliffview resort then Lago Linda's when Cliffview kicked us out. And I didn't have to worry that the rain would keep me from getting on my project.
Climbers are the red have no idea how lucky they are to be able to climb in the rain - very much not typical of a climbing area.
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Re: The crowds are not going away... So what do we do?

Post by dustonian » Fri Oct 21, 2011 2:57 pm

Yeah, the rainy day thing is a plus for sure in this climate. I suffered for years on the Yellow Wall during rain at the Gunks... what a pile! ;)

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Re: The crowds are not going away... So what do we do?

Post by clif » Fri Oct 21, 2011 2:57 pm

i wish you guys luck on this propaganda campaign. the river itself is amazing but talking about gumby crowds at the old orange oswald or the mob at butchers or rico on rainy days?

the Red and eastern kentucky have something incredible to be proud of and (continue to) turn into a very special place.
training is for people who care, i have a job.

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Re: The crowds are not going away... So what do we do?

Post by climb2core » Fri Oct 21, 2011 3:00 pm

rhunt wrote:I live in Columbus, Ohio and...
People from Ohio are the real reason the Red is so overcrowded with gymballs..

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Re: The crowds are not going away... So what do we do?

Post by clausti » Fri Oct 21, 2011 7:18 pm

climb2core wrote:
rhunt wrote:I live in Columbus, Ohio and...
People from Ohio are the real reason the Red is so overcrowded with gymballs..
I know this is a running joke around here, but most people from Cleveland go to the New, because of drive time and interstate architecture (77 goes straight from Cleveland to the new, basically). But the Red draws Ann Arbor, Detroit, Chicago, Northwestern U, Indy, Bloomington Indiana (40k college kids), Columbus, Cinci, Lexington, Louisville, Nashville, Chatty, and the ATL. And that's just what's within a very moderate ~6 hour driving radius.

The mountains between the New and many of those cities increase the driving time (not-interstate travel), lower the convenience a bit, and contribute to funneling more people towards the Red and not the New. The closest cities to the new are not as close, and they're all strung out along the east coast.

Geography, not just the extremely local geography of the climbing, affects the moment of people across the land.

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Re: The crowds are not going away... So what do we do?

Post by climb2core » Fri Oct 21, 2011 7:23 pm

Dood, chill... I am from Cbus, and yes it is a running jole around the Red. Oh, and I am a Canadian to boot. I am the problem :)

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Re: The crowds are not going away... So what do we do?

Post by Steve_RRG » Fri Oct 21, 2011 8:34 pm

What about more climbing areas in the RRG? The PMRP will be paid for next year. What are chances of finding more cliff-line for sale? With the massive crowds now going to the Red, it seems that a $5 per day charge/donation would help start a land purchase fund. It seems crazy to expect to climb for free. What other sport allows free access. Running, I guess, but not many.

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Re: The crowds are not going away... So what do we do?

Post by Rotarypwr345704 » Fri Oct 21, 2011 11:08 pm

EricDorsey wrote:
Rotarypwr345704 wrote:when Climbers from Orlando decide that they're going to make a trip, and it 8 hours to LRC, 11 hours to Foster's and 13 hours to the Red, we ALWAYS pick the Red because of it's quality.
I guess I dont get that point... You are passing other CLOSER and less CROWDED areas just to come to the red. Open your horizons, there are tons of awesome places in the south to climb just as good as the red. I don't understand such close minded people, but I guess thats why the red is so crowded cause everyone thinks its the only worthwhile place in the south to climb...
What's not to get? Open my horizons? I've been all over the Southeast. The Red is my favorite place to climb. The other four people that were responsible for choosing a place to climb also agreed that they enjoyed climbing there over other places. Once we were done with these trips, those who went on the trip, also agreed that the Red was better than the other destinations we've gone to. I'm sorry what's not to get? Isn't a matter of personal preference? So yes, we pass CLOSER and less CROWDED because we BELIEVE it is WORTH it. GET IT?
I fell for the everyone-shut-up-and-ill-donate-money scheme. -Ray Ellington, guidebook gawd

My name is Sam Douglass and I love to pose for photo shoots holding on to a jug with only one hand (and no feet!) with my best friend Ian.

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