The crowds are not going away... So what do we do?

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sevensvseights
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Re: The crowds are not going away... So what do we do?

Post by sevensvseights » Fri Oct 28, 2011 11:45 am

EricDorsey wrote:Id also add the stuff in natural bridge area; the zoo, emerald city, and roadside if it were still open are always packed on a good fall weekend....
I've been to Emerald City twice in the last few weekends and it has been surprisingly deserted. On Rocktoberfest weekend we were the only people there after noon, and the other time there was only one other pair climbing 'whiteout'. You'd think it would be packed, but maybe that mentality is keeping people away. Global Village, on the other hand, was crowded both weekends.

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Re: The crowds are not going away... So what do we do?

Post by EricDorsey » Fri Oct 28, 2011 12:09 pm

oops youre right... global village is what I meant to say. Always get those two confused.

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Re: The crowds are not going away... So what do we do?

Post by rhunt » Fri Oct 28, 2011 1:46 pm

EricDorsey - you quoted the wrong person.

And Andrew - you've been around long enough know exactly what I am talking about, stop trying to spin what I am saying.

This is what I am talking about:
EricDorsey wrote:The cliffs that have one or two good climbs within people abilities are never that crowded because who wants to spend all day driving out to the gorge region and hiking up to a crag to do one or two routes that are in the grade range you are looking to climb. Thats why its those 5-10 cliffs in muir/southern region that are always packed, numerous good quality climbs that are within a grade people are looking to climb.(usually the 9s, 10s, and 11's)
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Re: The crowds are not going away... So what do we do?

Post by rhunt » Fri Oct 28, 2011 1:49 pm

oh and a few more alternate uses of land
9. mt biking
10. adventure racing
11. leave it as a nature preserve - we don't have to develop every last bit of land for recreational use.
"Climbing is the spice, not the meal." ~ Lurkist

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Re: The crowds are not going away... So what do we do?

Post by EricDorsey » Fri Oct 28, 2011 2:11 pm

rhunt wrote:EricDorsey - you quoted the wrong person.
ya quote within a quote so it came out funny, either way the content is what was important, not who said it.

And I wish some of that land would get developed for mountain biking! It could be left as a nature preserve but I think americas land should be there for us to enjoy... as long as we aren't destroying it. For example; mining, oil drilling and logging. Mountain biking and climbing I feel pales in comparison.

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Re: The crowds are not going away... So what do we do?

Post by cletuswilcox » Fri Oct 28, 2011 3:06 pm

rhunt- You probably havent been to Military ever. There are usually 10 people there waiting to try one route.........Fuzzy. Have you been to Left Flank? There is almost always a large group getting on the two or three easy slabs at the top of the trail. Have you been to the Shire? Large groups waiting on Amarillo sunset. Did you ever go to Roadside and check out how many people were in line for Ro? I could go on....

In my opinion the local climbing community here at the RRG should think twice about the impact mainstream climbing media has on our area. Try and find a climbing publication other than the alpinist that dosent have at least a picture of the RED. Whether it's an advertisement or a full spread or a picture in one of their galleries. Its out of hand in my opinion. As a local climbing community we have opened our arms to people like Keith Ladsinsky, Andy Mann, Sasha Digullian, Jonathon Seigrist, Dan Brayack, (the list goes on.....) to come to the RED and plug us in completely to mainstream climbing media. I would add that the amount of exposure the RRG gets from these climbers/photographers benefits their pocketbooks and resumes and thats about it. I would agree that we've almost reached a pont of no return as far as exposure goes but that dosent mean that trying to limit the media's free run of the RED isnt something to consider. Personally I'd like to see a moritorium on all corporate media exposure on our climbing areas. I find this to be the number one reason the RED is a complete shit show. A COMPLETE SHIT SHOW! just my opinion

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Re: The crowds are not going away... So what do we do?

Post by tbwilsonky » Fri Oct 28, 2011 3:24 pm

The show must go on.
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Re: The crowds are not going away... So what do we do?

Post by pigsteak » Fri Oct 28, 2011 3:36 pm

Rhunt, you should climb at Military and Left Flank sometime before you retire. They really are pretty good crags....lol

And ignore Andrew..this whole do-gooder "hurt local businesses" BS he is spouting is bunk. pure bunk. he could care less about all those local businesses.
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Re: The crowds are not going away... So what do we do?

Post by rhunt » Fri Oct 28, 2011 4:43 pm

HA yea I literally LOL'd when I read that I obviously haven't been to those places.

My first trip to the RED - spring of 1995 - I went to roadside, military, left flank and phantasia - those were pretty much the only cliffs developed with sport route at that time. If you did not climb harder than 5.10+ and you wanted to clip bolts at the Red back then, you had to wait in line for 5 routes that were bolted and rated under 10c.
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Re: The crowds are not going away... So what do we do?

Post by pigsteak » Fri Oct 28, 2011 5:07 pm

rhunt wrote:HA yea I literally LOL'd when I read that I obviously haven't been to those places.

My first trip to the RED - spring of 1995 - I went to roadside, military, left flank and phantasia - those were pretty much the only cliffs developed with sport route at that time. If you did not climb harder than 5.10+ and you wanted to clip bolts at the Red back then, you had to wait in line for 5 routes that were bolted and rated under 10c.
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Re: The crowds are not going away... So what do we do?

Post by mikeyw » Fri Oct 28, 2011 5:16 pm

cletuswilcox wrote: As a local climbing community we have opened our arms to people like Keith Ladsinsky, Andy Mann, Sasha Digullian, Jonathon Seigrist, Dan Brayack, (the list goes on.....) to come to the RED and plug us in completely to mainstream climbing media. I would add that the amount of exposure the RRG gets from these climbers/photographers benefits their pocketbooks and resumes and thats about it.
Yeah, man, I'm with you dude. Next time I see Sasha or that asshole Siegrist at the crag getting their pictures taken I'm gonna tell them to stay the fuck away from my SECRET crag!

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Re: The crowds are not going away... So what do we do?

Post by mssmith » Fri Oct 28, 2011 6:10 pm

cletuswilcox wrote: Personally I'd like to see a moritorium on all corporate media exposure on our climbing areas.
What gives you the exclusive right to climb at the red? Just cause you live closer and pull harder than people from ohio and michigan? All the climbing is located on either
1.) NFS land - national, not state or local forest service
2.) private landowners who graciously allow us access (THANK YOU!)
3.) the RRGCC who's mission statement describes the red as "a national treasure that are deserving of our best efforts to preserve for all Americans and for all climbers to enjoy, experience, and appreciate."

I can't imagine how frustrating it is to spend time and money developing a crag and then seeing it overrun but unfortunately that's just the way of the world.

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Re: The crowds are not going away... So what do we do?

Post by caribe » Fri Oct 28, 2011 8:14 pm

mssmith wrote:
cletuswilcox wrote: Personally I'd like to see a moritorium on all corporate media exposure on our climbing areas.
What gives you the exclusive right to climb at the red
+1
fascism and autocracy rarely seek reason.

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Re: The crowds are not going away... So what do we do?

Post by pigsteak » Fri Oct 28, 2011 10:56 pm

sure, keep em coming......
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Re: The crowds are not going away... So what do we do?

Post by cletuswilcox » Sun Oct 30, 2011 1:17 pm

Wanting less media exposure has nothing to do with feelings of entitlement about crags at the RED. In fact its quite the opposite. Photographers/videographers and high profile professional climbers HAVE AN IMPACT ON CROWDS AT THE RED. Im sorry if this concept if offensive to some people but it is a fact. Limiting the amount of exposure the RRG receives on an annual basis is in my opinion an effort to limit climber impact on the RED. The way I see things being a visiting climber to an area and impacting that area via personal/professional media exposure and PROMOTION and then taking offense to any disapproving local opinion is in itself "entitlement". I do not feel entitled to anything at the RRG. This is why reducing my own personal impact is a priority. It is also why the idea of a lower-profile climbing community is an attractive option for me. As I said before this is my opinion and I definitely feel entitled to that.

Mikey Williams- From the looks of you my money would be on Sasha.

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