News re Muir Valley

[SpikySkaKid]

Muir Valley is Great. Stop all the Hate.

[clif]

i hate you

[ray]

You live in a tiny little piece of the climbing world, Ray with a very narrow perspective as to what makes a stellar climbing area. Certainly, the climbs. And they don't get much better than those in the PMRP that you listed, or at the solarium,midnight surf, or the sanctuary at muir,for that matter. But, a climbing area, for the vast majority of climbers, is much more than just the stuff up there on the rock. At a truly stellar climbing destination, I don't worry about my oil pan being ripped out, or my car broken into, or peeing and pooping in a very un-LNT manner with the only "restroom" being the Lode stench pit, or having a medical emergency and no one to turn to like Muir's MVRG, or having some ill-behaved, noisy mutt pissing on my gear bag, or ... Yeah, Ray, your idea of stellar sure isn't mine and, I'm sure, thousands of others.

Potts, I don't live in a tiny little piece of the climbing world and I don't feel I have a narrow perspective to what makes a stellar climbing area. The Red has been one of the best sport climbing destinations in the country long before the manicured grounds of Muir. I climb in a lot of areas around the country and none of them have the Jurassic Park feel that Muir does yet they are still magnificent areas. I just don't think it should cost nearly $100K/year to create a great environment.

I guess it depends on your comfort level though. You sound like someone that doesn't get out much so I would expect you to desire an environment that duplicates what you are used to.

[climb2core]

A good portion of the $100k/year was out of the Webers own pockets. It was their vision and their money to make Muir Valley into what it is. Just appreciate that and accept that while you may find it distasteful and a waste of money, it wasn't your vision, land, or money that created it.

Also, I was very happy to see this in the Webers answers:

"These extraordinary costs will not occur in years after 2015 so there is every reason to believe that total budgets will be considerably less in future years. Operating cost will be a function of how many climbers visit Muir Valley and what projects FOMV deems it is important to undertake."

This is a definite change in position from the past and I think it is much more realistic. I often have not seen eye to eye with the Webers and have never shied away from expressing my difference of opinion, but they have made a VERY, VERY generous offer to the community.

Miller Fork looks like a rip off in comparison.

[Savage]

Ok, ok.... everyone put their dicks away. We are moving off topic.

The webers have invested an enourmous amount of time, energy, and money into making Muir what it is today. Yes, it caters more to begining climbers, but it still houses lots of 5-star climbs for the big boys too. Because it is so heavily trafficked, it makes sense that they have added some infrastructure to support the increased load. The pit toilets and foot bridges will last for many years without too much upkeep and preventing LNT issues like at the lode or roadside.

Yes, $100k is a lot of money to raise each year, and that probably isnt very sustainable. With that said, I dont think it is realistic that the costs will remain that high when so much has already been paid toward lasting infrastructure. To ensure this, I think it is perfectly reasonable for the climbing community to get a budget and a plan for the upcoming years. If they want the community to foot the bill, we should know what we are paying for.

Even if you dont care for Muir or can do without it, a donation that keeps it open to climbing is in your best interest. Why? Because if it shuts down, then all those people are going to start dispursing to other areas (PMRP) and will start to impact access issues. It's like fighting cancer. You dont say, 'fuck it, its just the appendix let it get cancer and die'...... the cancer spreads to where it matters [to you].

[J-Ru]

Miller Fork looks like a rip off in comparison.

Don't forget...

...they created an impressive infrastructure, ultimately spending over a million dollars of their own money.

They are proposing a gift for which they have spent over $1,000,000. It is not reasonable to compare that gift to the purchase of MFRP and make the conclusion that MFRP was a rip off.

[clif]

i'll send a pm-

[climb2core]

To ensure this, I think it is perfectly reasonable for the climbing community to get a budget and a plan for the upcoming years. If they want the community to foot the bill, we should know what we are paying for.

It is a non-profit, dependent upon charitable donations. As such, it will ASK for donations for demonstrable need and it will be up to the community to decide if and to what extent it will support those endeavors.

ie. FoMV could budget for a monorail in 2017, but if they don't have the cash and the community doesn't financially support it, then no monorail. That being said, as a 501(c)(3) non profit they will obligated to transparently share the financials each year.

[climb2core]

Miller Fork looks like a rip off in comparison.

Don't forget...

...they created an impressive infrastructure, ultimately spending over a million dollars of their own money.

They are proposing a gift for which they have spent over $1,000,000. It is not reasonable to compare that gift to the purchase of MFRP and make the conclusion that MFRP was a rip off.

J-Ru, it was making an extreme example of the relative value of Muir. It wasn't an attempt to put down MFRP, but instead to highlight the extent of the generosity.

[krampus]

Looks like I have to dig even deeper this year. I rarely climb there but I do want MV to be around after my dogs die.

It gonna be hard, the coalition puts a lot of effort into fund raising (A LOT). Their efforts have created a likely projection of the size of the pie that the comunity has ingreedients for. I have not seen the books and I don't have an MBA but my question is whether the FOMV have considered this (and future projections) when taking on this challenge? It would seem to me this goal is at the very best is the equivilent of MV asking for 200%, but likely 300% to 400% of the available pie. Will bolt and coalition fundraising have to be put on hold? It's an awkward position the community has been put in so I can understand certain frustrations but it is what it is.

And what it is is time to start dancin. Those of us who care, we gotta dance and pass the hat around, its the only way possible. We need those duckets, we gotta spread the word. Anybody have any human statue experience? Loyalty to the coalition is mandatory cus our land can't be taken back but we have to support Muir as well. There has to be enough pie for everyone.

[ynp1]

^^^ word^^^

The same thing I was saying, but I bet it will be taken a little better. Jump on him Potts, c2c and roto.

[J-Ru]

Assumptions

1. Of those who donate to Muir:
   1. Some will donate more to meet the challenge.
   2. Some will not donate more in spite of the challenge at hand.
   3. Of those who donate more, few will maintain the donation level in the future.
2. Of those who do not donate to Muir:
   1. Some will make a one or two time donation.
   2. Some will begin a modest continual donation.
   3. Some who have a different climbing world view will not donate.

Observations & Questions

1. From above: 1(c) and 2(b) are the untapped potential.
2. From above: 2(c) can be ignored, but NOT ostracized.
3. What is realistic budget post 2015?
4. How much does the average donation flow already cover?
5. How many of 1(c) and 2(b) are required to meet this budget?
6. What is the average donation?
7. Consider forcing 1(c) and 2(a) to donate through paid parking requirements.
   1. During the off-season it is on your honor.
   2. During the high season, man the lot.
   3. Certain donation levels get all year parking.
   4. Certain higher levels get reserved parking.

Nerd out over.

[Rotarypwr345704]

^^^ word^^^

The same thing I was saying, but I bet it will be taken a little better. Jump on him Potts, c2c and roto.

The difference is, krampus sounds like someone who actually gives a shit. You wanna talk about the Weber's posts being passive aggressive, but yours are downright aggressive.

[ted]

soooo..the big ass elephant in the room. Why not hand over the property to the rrgcc? I think they have done a good job with limited funding.

[climb2core]

soooo..the big ass elephant in the room. Why not hand over the property to the rrgcc? I think they have done a good job with limited funding.

Ha ha.. Ted, you don't get out much, do you? lol