ROADSIDE IS NOT OPEN - IT IS CLOSED

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GStephens
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ROADSIDE IS NOT OPEN - IT IS CLOSED

Post by GStephens » Sat Jun 28, 2014 2:10 pm

I was at the Graining Fork Nature Preserve this morning and noticed hoards of climbers descending on Roadside. I asked an older couple if they had permission from John to climb there. "No" they said.nI then asked them if they had asked Grant for permission to climb there. No, again. They then proceeded to tell me that Roadside was indeed open and it was "all over the internet."

I then looked across the street from the parking area and there was a fluorescent sign that said "OPEN" and the very substantial no trespassing sign that has been up for years had been chainsawed down.

I just spoke with John and he was as shocked as I was about this. Shocked is an understatement - livid is more accurate. So here is the deal -

SUBSTANTIAL CASH REWARD FOR THE PERSON WHO IDENTIFIES THE CRIMINAL THAT VANDALIZED THE EXISTING SIGN AND THEN INSTALLED THE "OPEN" SIGN.

If the so-called climbing community doesn't have the moxie to deplore this act of stupidity then I can assure you Roadside will be closed for all eternity. If we are quickly notified of the identity of the person(s) who did this, then there is a chance it might be opened on a limited basis, which was a plan that was already in the works. But someone has now ruined that plan.

Furthermore, I find it unbelievable that anyone on this site would be foolish enough to trespass at Roadside without an announcement her directly from John or I.

These are exactly the kinds of problems that closed it in the first place.

Grant and John

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Re: ROADSIDE IS NOT OPEN - IT IS CLOSED

Post by Cromper » Sat Jun 28, 2014 3:13 pm

Wowza

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Re: ROADSIDE IS NOT OPEN - IT IS CLOSED

Post by sharon9999 » Sat Jun 28, 2014 6:55 pm

It is a big assumption that there are people in the "so called "climbing community that know who did this. Honestly, it seems a bit silly to hold the whole climbing community responsible for the act of one person. I have to say, if I were ass enough to do something as stupid as taking down the old sign and posting an OPEN sign, I sure as hell wouldn't advertise it. But go ahead and punish the whole community if you want, that's your decision.

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Re: ROADSIDE IS NOT OPEN - IT IS CLOSED

Post by mjkusn01 » Sat Jun 28, 2014 7:19 pm

Nobody does this kind of thing alone. Somebody will speak up.

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Re: ROADSIDE IS NOT OPEN - IT IS CLOSED

Post by One-Fall » Sat Jun 28, 2014 9:19 pm

Grant and John,

Please let me know if there is anything I can do to help. Roadside was such a vital part of the history of the Red and we all hope it will have a future too.

Sorry the land you two own was disrespected. Hope to hear from you.

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Re: ROADSIDE IS NOT OPEN - IT IS CLOSED

Post by Steve_RRG » Sun Jun 29, 2014 8:19 am

To the owners of Roadside,
This was the first place I climbed at the RRG back in 1993, so I have many great (and some not so) memories of the area. I would love to see it opened up again, but if you hope to allow hundreds or even thousands of users into an area over the course of a year without supervision, it is almost guaranteed that some of these users will be jerks. If one or two jerks can ruin it for the rest of the users, you may as well keep it closed. There will be people with no common sense. And others who feel entitled to do whatever they want even to someone else's property. I see the same thing happening at Muir Valley. They ask, "Why should we have to donate to climb here?" Well, it is private property, just like Roadside. You can't just go to someone else's house and move in for free.

Even if there were some type of park ranger roaming around the area it would still be hard to police all activity. I suppose you could just open it up to guided climbing for users accompanied by approved guides. Aside from a police force full time, you almost have to accept some improper activities and just hope that the rest of the more responsible users will try to control the jerks.

The thing that saves Muir is that the owners live on the property and do a great job trying to keep things under control. If not for that, there would be people camping all over the property (remember all the campers at the Roadside parking lot), and running ATV's and dirt bikes through the valley. It's just the way the entitled group thinks. Anyhow, I apologize for the actions of the jerks and hope that you are able to work out a plan you are comfortable with for the property. The climbing community has many issues to work out if they are going to own and control their own future and climbing areas. Anyone who has read about the battles between the climbers in Yosemite Valley and the rangers over the years knows that there are jerks everywhere, not just at the RRG. Good luck. Sorry for the ramble.

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Re: ROADSIDE IS NOT OPEN - IT IS CLOSED

Post by jhaight » Sun Jun 29, 2014 9:27 am

I was disappointed that someone would vandalize "Roadside". I think the act has far more ramifications than simply destroying a sign and misrepresenting private property. I don't know if it was a climber or non-climber but it is my intention to try to find them and prosecute them. I think every "community" has a few assholes that in no way represent the community as a whole and climbers are no different. With that said I have been very disappointed at the number of people that have violated the closure at Roadside and the hostility that they have spewed in various ways up to and including anonymous threats of physical violence.

The area is now a non-profit called Graining Fork Nature Preserve and it is our hope to increase access to climbing there. Like most things it is much easier to manage things when you aren't actually faced with the reality of doing it. We have talked with the Access Fund and RRGCC and others since access was limited a couple of years ago. It is our intention to open the preserve to limited access that allows more people to enjoy the area while protecting what we think is an incredible place. As I said before, how best to do that is more difficult when faced with actually implementing it, but it is our intention to try.

John Haight

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Re: ROADSIDE IS NOT OPEN - IT IS CLOSED

Post by dustonian » Sun Jun 29, 2014 10:23 am

Thanks John... all your time, effort, and thoughtful insight on this are really appreciated. Very disappointing to hear about the vandalism, but like you said there are a-holes in every community and we have a big one here. Last fall we were cleaning up spray paint at the crag of all things, so it could be worse... probably the same person in all honesty.

Good luck and please do not hesitate to ask if you need anything.

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Re: ROADSIDE IS NOT OPEN - IT IS CLOSED

Post by Wolf » Sun Jun 29, 2014 11:11 am

I deplore this act of stupidity. I hope the perpetrator fesses up and apologizes.
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Re: ROADSIDE IS NOT OPEN - IT IS CLOSED

Post by Rotarypwr345704 » Sun Jun 29, 2014 4:48 pm

GStephens wrote:If the so-called climbing community doesn't have the moxie to deplore this act of stupidity then I can assure you Roadside will be closed for all eternity. If we are quickly notified of the identity of the person(s) who did this, then there is a chance it might be opened on a limited basis, which was a plan that was already in the works. But someone has now ruined that plan.

Furthermore, I find it unbelievable that anyone on this site would be foolish enough to trespass at Roadside without an announcement her directly from John or I.

These are exactly the kinds of problems that closed it in the first place.

Grant and John
Keep the land closed. You two are fucking morons. I have very little patience for those who try and hold things over the heads of others. If you don't want to wholeheartedly open your land to climbing, then don't. Save us all your pathetic bitching about the slightest of errors by a singular person or a small group of people and then apply it to the community. I guarantee you that if you just came out and asked for help from the community, you would get all you needed, plus some. You have a wall on your land with mediocre routes at best. No one has missed Roadside. No one has missed your bullshit, threatening-to-close-access posts. Just shut the fuck up and leave the land as it currently sits: CLOSED.
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Re: ROADSIDE IS NOT OPEN - IT IS CLOSED

Post by tpowell » Sun Jun 29, 2014 5:06 pm

Someone may want to put a sign up at Miguel's and at the crag about it being closed. It would seem a lot of people are still under the impression it is open because the closed sign is gone.

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Re: ROADSIDE IS NOT OPEN - IT IS CLOSED

Post by KD » Sun Jun 29, 2014 5:32 pm

So, does this mean I should scrub my plans to stand in line behind 3 groups of anywhere from 10 to infinity for my chance to repeat C-Sharp or B-Flat? Just askin.

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Re: ROADSIDE IS NOT OPEN - IT IS CLOSED

Post by DriskellHR » Sun Jun 29, 2014 6:10 pm

On. A slightly unrelated note, the MFRP sign has been stolen twice in the last three weeks........ Some People suck, plain and simple.
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Re: ROADSIDE IS NOT OPEN - IT IS CLOSED

Post by KD » Sun Jun 29, 2014 6:40 pm

Also on a slightly unrelated note; Kim Jung Un has threatened war on the whole United States if that comedy gets out about him. Well that might be a little related - not a lot though.

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Re: ROADSIDE IS NOT OPEN - IT IS CLOSED

Post by caribe » Sun Jun 29, 2014 8:21 pm

jhaight wrote:
With that said I have been very disappointed at the number of people that have violated the closure at Roadside
John Haight
People have been poaching RS?? I drive by there quite a bit and have never seen anybody coming down off the hill as I round the corner. Out of habit, I always look. Was poaching a weekly or a monthly problem? Since the Zoo got more routes the parking lot has been more populated, but I did not think people were crossing the road.
• I think we can pretty much write RS off the crag list. User abuse was not the reason it was closed. On the rare moment I'd see trash I'd pick it up. Others did too, so there was very little. A few months before the place closed the RRGCC organized a trail day. A lot got done. There was impact at the 5.7 wall, but if the owners wanted that to recover they could have closed that wall. That closure would have been enforced by climbers at the other routes telling people that it's closed. There could have been a smaller sign at the wall, smaller than the one in the middle of the path. The climbing community doesn't have to flog itself about the closure though.
• Having said that, John and Grant own the land. It is their right to close it. That decision should be respected. It sucks to be vandalized. I'm sorry it occurred. The vandals probably wrongly see themselves as freedom fighters instead of the terrorists that they are.

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