Which type of climbing style is the hardest?

Placing a cam? Slotting a nut? Slinging a tree?

If you were about to climb a route which was at the extreme of your climbing ability, which type of protection do you think would make this route the MOST DIFFICULT for you to redpoint?

Bolted Protection (Draws)
1
2%
No Protection (not even a crashpad)
16
32%
Top Rope (with No Unclipping)
8
16%
Traditional Protection (Cams & Nuts)
25
50%
 
Total votes: 50

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Which type of climbing style is the hardest?

Post by powell.se » Fri Jan 09, 2009 3:00 pm

Let the voters decide!
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Post by SCIN » Fri Jan 09, 2009 3:06 pm

I voted for toproping because the rope gets in the way on difficult moves.
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Post by powell.se » Fri Jan 09, 2009 3:09 pm

Fair enough
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Post by 512OW » Fri Jan 09, 2009 3:14 pm

Too vague. After I place the protection, will it be good? Whats the landing like? Water? Sand? Concrete? How tall is it? Where is the crux, beginning or up high?

Besides all that, since "climbing ability" implies that you're talking of the whole package... movement skills, efficiency, mastery of techniques, mental control, ability to place pro... then the answer is easily "None of the above". All would be equal, assuming they are at your limit.
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Post by Crankmas » Fri Jan 09, 2009 3:20 pm

should I assume the sun's location is the same for all styles? I dislike having the sun in my eyes while climbing but usually its just because the shadows are too harsh for my Stone Nudes 2010 work, so smile and keep those tips up

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Post by 512OW » Fri Jan 09, 2009 3:26 pm

I think I get it now. What you guys don't understand is that the difficulty of placing gear is already built into the grades. You don't get extra credit for it.

Look at Synchronicity. It'd be 10c if you didn't have to place gear... but it isn't.

And Crankenstein. 5.9 at best if you didn't have to place gear.

However, most cracks don't deserve a higher grade for gear placement. There isn't a single placement that ups the grade on The Inhibitor, Rock Wars, Hidden Dragon, Welcome To Ole Kentuck, blah blah blah.
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Post by pigsteak » Fri Jan 09, 2009 3:30 pm

easy OW...let the mad haters have their day in court. It is much more fun to "pretend" that trad climbing is the "serious man's sport", and oh, so much harder.

since the question is worded for a redpoint burn, which assumes you have the route dialed beyond belief, then the answer is "all are equal". duh. 5.11 is 5.11 is 5.11 is 5.11......

and since "all are equal" is not an option in this poll, it is VERY apparent that the poster has a hidden agenda to protect his preferred style, and to ignore the fact that maybe he just sucks and is too lazy to get good at the chosen style.

new poll.
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Post by 512OW » Fri Jan 09, 2009 3:33 pm

pigsteak wrote:easy OW...let the mad haters have their day in court. It is much more fun to "pretend" that trad climbing is the "serious man's sport", and oh, so much harder.

since the question is worded for a redpoint burn, which assumes you have the route dialed beyond belief, then the answer is "all are equal". duh. 5.11 is 5.11 is 5.11 is 5.11......

and since "all are equal" is not an option in this poll, it is VERY apparent that the poster has a hidden agenda to protect his preferred style, and to ignore the fact that maybe he just sucks and is too lazy to get good at the chosen style.

new poll.
Sorry. Again you are correct.

Screw all you 5.13 bolt clippers. Lets see how strong you are when presented with a splitter hand crack! Chuffers...

Is that better?
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Post by pigsteak » Fri Jan 09, 2009 3:39 pm

better.
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Post by Horatio Felacio » Fri Jan 09, 2009 4:00 pm

what's the best v9 in the world?
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Post by Horatio Felacio » Fri Jan 09, 2009 4:04 pm

also, i voted for trad, because there is a higher percentage of routes with placements that have been more strenuous for me vs. clipping a pre-hung draw.
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Post by 512OW » Fri Jan 09, 2009 4:15 pm

Horatio Felacio wrote:also, i voted for trad, because there is a higher percentage of routes with placements that have been more strenuous for me vs. clipping a pre-hung draw.
But doesn't "at your limit" still equal "at your limit", regardless of the style, number, or reason?
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Post by Ascentionist » Fri Jan 09, 2009 5:06 pm

512OW wrote:.

However, most cracks don't deserve a higher grade for gear placement. There isn't a single placement that ups the grade on The Inhibitor, Rock Wars, Hidden Dragon, Welcome To Ole Kentuck, blah blah blah.
The little quiz thingy did say "at your limit". From a personal standpoint, and not a "climbing community grade consensus" standpoint, when I am climbing at my limit it is harder for me to flash a route:

1) Placing gear
2) Clipping draws
3) Top roping (because as Ray says the rope gets in the way)
4) Bouldering

My hardest free moves to date are on a boulder, my next hardest moves were on top rope, then sport, then trad.

It's not that I think placing gear makes a route technically harder. I agree completely that gear placements do not change the overall grade. But for my personal effort at my limit there is a difference.

If I'm barely making the moves I am more likely to fail if I have to fiddle with a camlock (if you don't know, don't ask). If I can drop the rope in a prehung draw then I can conserve energy for the send. Didn't change the movement over stone, just the energy required to do so.

If pro didn't matter then there wouldn't have been such a fuss over the ethics of yo-yoing vs. redpointing vs. onsighting vs. top roping vs. soloing throughout the history of technical rock climbing.
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Post by mcrib » Fri Jan 09, 2009 5:35 pm

this is thread is fucking retarded.
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Post by 512OW » Fri Jan 09, 2009 5:52 pm

Ascentionist wrote:
512OW wrote:.

However, most cracks don't deserve a higher grade for gear placement. There isn't a single placement that ups the grade on The Inhibitor, Rock Wars, Hidden Dragon, Welcome To Ole Kentuck, blah blah blah.
The little quiz thingy did say "at your limit". From a personal standpoint, and not a "climbing community grade consensus" standpoint, when I am climbing at my limit it is harder for me to flash a route:

1) Placing gear
2) Clipping draws
3) Top roping (because as Ray says the rope gets in the way)
4) Bouldering

My hardest free moves to date are on a boulder, my next hardest moves were on top rope, then sport, then trad.

It's not that I think placing gear makes a route technically harder. I agree completely that gear placements do not change the overall grade. But for my personal effort at my limit there is a difference.

If I'm barely making the moves I am more likely to fail if I have to fiddle with a camlock (if you don't know, don't ask). If I can drop the rope in a prehung draw then I can conserve energy for the send. Didn't change the movement over stone, just the energy required to do so.

If pro didn't matter then there wouldn't have been such a fuss over the ethics of yo-yoing vs. redpointing vs. onsighting vs. top roping vs. soloing throughout the history of technical rock climbing.
You're still using the term "at your limit" to mean the difficulty of the moves... but that isn't what was asked, or should be asked. In any type of climbing, you can't boil it down to only the moves... and since all things are involved, "at your limit" should be a combination of all things. While "at your limit" may be a different number for each discipline, "at your limit" is still "at your limit".
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