Trad as a Fad?

Placing a cam? Slotting a nut? Slinging a tree?
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pigsteak
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Re: Trad as a Fad?

Post by pigsteak » Mon Apr 30, 2012 1:56 pm

see toad has it right...look at that picture as it explains trad climbers to a tee....

hiking shoes, no chalk, heavy pack, no hands on rock, and chasing a bunch of goats....or sheep if that is your persuasion...(who am I to judge)
Positive vibes brah...positive vibes.

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Re: Trad as a Fad?

Post by caribe » Mon Apr 30, 2012 2:02 pm

pigsteak wrote:that's it...trad is something to do when there is no real climbing available,
Kipp, you are playing with your life man. I like you a lot and at this point I have no recourse but to beg you stop for your own health and well being. With the notable exception of yourself, :| , the tradies on here outweigh the sporties man for man and we know how to swing the baby-killer number 6's. They did not pick me, well, because I am way too dark to be a Visigoth, but the rest of these guys all had parts on those "what's in your wallet" commercials--mass, body hair and breath.

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Re: Trad as a Fad?

Post by 512OW » Mon Apr 30, 2012 2:29 pm

JR wrote:

This is how it breaks down...

"hard core climbers" are ego maniacs. So of course, whatever they are into seems like the best thing in the world .
Same reason your aforementioned Scin and Odub thought Trad was cool back then and Sport is great now..... because that is what they were/are into.

P.s. I only know this because I also think the world revolves around me baby. ME!
I still think trad climbing is cool. It would be a lot cooler if all the climbers using it as an excuse would stop acting like 5.11 trad is harder than 5.11 sport. It isn't, its just different.
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Re: Trad as a Fad?

Post by dustonian » Mon Apr 30, 2012 2:33 pm

Haha 5.11 sport is a joke at almost any newer crag. Go do the West Face of El Cap, the Naked Edge, Astroman, the Yellow Wall, any 5.11 at the Gunks, Seneca, T-Wall, Vedauwoo, or Eldo for the matter & try to compare it to "5.11" at a sport crag. Grade inflation in sport climbing has been running rampant for decades. It doesn't really level out until mid to upper-12 at most places. Even comparing the 5.11 wall at Torrent to Windy Corner is laughable. The climbing on easy to mid-10 in the Gunks, NC or Seneca comes out to about mid-11 or so on the sport routes here. A route like "Good Tang" would come in around 10c in Muir or the PMRP.

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Re: Trad as a Fad?

Post by toad857 » Mon Apr 30, 2012 2:47 pm

Trad routes suck because there are no dogs, hammocks, stereos, children, lines, chalk-caked holds, or people to inform you that you "went off route" somewhere up there by the 5th bolt. Their unnecessary height, exposure, quality, privacy, and memorable nature preclude any legitimate consideration from most RRG climbers. Take into consideration that accidents related to sharp and abandoned 'perma' draws, exploding bolts, and complacent belaying (apparently a "sport" thing) don't typically apply to trad climbing.... and you've pretty much removed everything awesome about climbing in the first place.

So there you have it. Trad is for wankers, not climbers.

Now define a climber.

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Re: Trad as a Fad?

Post by 512OW » Mon Apr 30, 2012 2:54 pm

I am comparing it to those things. I've not seen these grade differences people speak of. The 11s in yosemite, jtree, and vedauwoo all felt easier than the 11s here. The 12s in those places were certainly easier. I find the 11 trad routes here to be comparable to the 11 sport routes. Windy Corner? It has one move harder than 5.9. Id say its about as difficult as Bandolier.

I stand by the idea that the routes aren't graded differently... the climbers lack the skill sets.
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Re: Trad as a Fad?

Post by dustonian » Mon Apr 30, 2012 2:57 pm

O'Kelley's Crack versus Breakfast Burrito? Wangerbanger versus Centerfire? Leanie Meanie versus Fuzzy Undercling? Crack-a-Go-Go versus some jugwaddle at Bibliothek? Twilight Zone versus any 5.11 in the Red??

Bush-league Sanka-shit laughable man!!

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Re: Trad as a Fad?

Post by Shamis » Mon Apr 30, 2012 3:06 pm

512OW wrote:
JR wrote:

This is how it breaks down...

"hard core climbers" are ego maniacs. So of course, whatever they are into seems like the best thing in the world .
Same reason your aforementioned Scin and Odub thought Trad was cool back then and Sport is great now..... because that is what they were/are into.

P.s. I only know this because I also think the world revolves around me baby. ME!
I still think trad climbing is cool. It would be a lot cooler if all the climbers using it as an excuse would stop acting like 5.11 trad is harder than 5.11 sport. It isn't, its just different.
Placing gear is more difficult than clipping a bolt. That's why it's harder.

Although, I would have to ask you to tell me which 5.10 sport route at the red is as difficult as Erect Direction at the gunks.

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Re: Trad as a Fad?

Post by toad857 » Mon Apr 30, 2012 3:08 pm

yes, arguing over grades is indeed laughable.

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Re: Trad as a Fad?

Post by dustonian » Mon Apr 30, 2012 3:11 pm

Shamis wrote: Although, I would have to ask you to tell me which 5.10 sport route at the red is as difficult as Erect Direction at the gunks.
Great route. How about Fat City Direct? RRG 11c-ish.

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Re: Trad as a Fad?

Post by 512OW » Mon Apr 30, 2012 3:19 pm

Shamis, I've never seen a trad route with hard to place gear that didn't already have that difficulty built into the grade. If you stop and place every 3 feet, making the route harder, then its no different than trying to stop and rest on the crux of a sport route. The route isn't harder just because you do it wrong.

Dustin, I still stand by it. Unless you add in a subjective fear factor, trad climbs generally aren't more difficult climbing than their sport counterparts.

Onsite solo some of the 11s in the Red, and I bet they feel just as hard as Twilight Zone.

Its all about skill sets. There was a day when I couldn't get up 5.11 sport routes... not even on toprope, but could do 5.11 cracks off the couch. Id have sworn then that sport climbing was harder.
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Re: Trad as a Fad?

Post by dustonian » Mon Apr 30, 2012 3:22 pm

I guess you're an outlier then. I doubt there is another person alive who would say there is a single 10+ sport route in the Red that even begins to approach the difficulty of old traditional 5.10s like Twilight Zone, Outer Space Direct, anything at Vedauwoo, the Gunks, Seneca, or even Midterm for that matter. I stand by my position that the last two decades have seen a massive wave of grade inflation in the 5.9-5.11 range by sport climbing weenie-lickers. I would see your point that it "depends on what you do," except that I'm a totally shitty sport climber myself.

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Re: Trad as a Fad?

Post by rjackson » Mon Apr 30, 2012 3:29 pm

Trad as a fad? Hell, climbing is a fad! Just look around... If it weren't were climbing gym birthday parties, Citibank, flying squirrel suits and 60 Minutes we'd just be another eccentric tribe on the verge of extinction, religiously holding onto our values of "purity" and "righteousness" as though we invented fire. (When actually it was just our chicken-shit homo sapien ass climbing to avoid becoming something else's dinner.)

And as for what is what, the only thing that matters is whether you're on the sharp end or not. I've seen 'em cry like little girls on both gear and bolts when past their "comfort" zone. Get in the game or go home!

Putting up with the Pig?! I love that guy, and I'm about to swing over his way... That heavy ass pack is breaking my back, I'm sick of blowing lichen out my nose from "others" ground up attempts and now that I have all the gear there's no fun in the collecting...
Pick myself up, stop lookin' back.
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Re: Trad as a Fad?

Post by SCIN » Mon Apr 30, 2012 3:29 pm

dustonian wrote:I don't think anyone is under the delusion that there is any threat of a "trad resurgence" in the RRG... except maybe Arty and SCIN after a couple coldies and vodka-soaked gummy bears. Traditional climbing here remains the desolate backwater it's more or less always tended to be... a novelty item that's nice to have around and killer for sweltering hot days, crowded fall weekends, or "rest" days when your skin and fingers are too destroyed from snapshackling.
Easy now, I was the only one not slurring my words that night. I never implied there was a trad resurgence in the Red. Art must have had too many gummies if he heard me say that. If I did agree to something you said, Art, it's because you confused me with your big words and I tend to shake my head a lot (it's a tick).

I did say I sold out before Kris though. Michelle used her prowess to show me the way and before I knew it I was bitching about long hikes and wearing Prana. Now instead of being a cool old bearded rough and tumble gear slinger taking weekend trips to Seneca I'm an anorexic pansie who occasionally struggles with thoughts of how cool it would be to have a big muscular chest.
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Re: Trad as a Fad?

Post by dustonian » Mon Apr 30, 2012 3:31 pm

SCIN wrote:Michelle used her prowess to show me the way and before I knew it I was bitching about long hikes and wearing Prana. Now instead of being a cool old bearded rough and tumble gear slinger taking weekend trips to Seneca I'm an anorexic pansie who occasionally struggles with thoughts of how cool it would be to have a big muscular chest.
Ruh-roh...... sounds familiar.... except the anorexic and Prana part.

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