Trad as a Fad?

Placing a cam? Slotting a nut? Slinging a tree?
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der uber
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Re: Trad as a Fad?

Post by der uber » Mon Apr 30, 2012 7:57 pm

One-Fall wrote:
pigsteak wrote:
and more on point....rjackson climbs 12a...he sucks
I climb 12b...I suck
ow climbs 13b ...he also sucks....

quote]

For accuracy's sake alone:

Russ has climbed 12b
You have climbed 12d
Kris has climbed 13d

. . .And I failed to send my project after 21 attempts. Now how did Ray say I could lose more weight?
I'm relieved you have finally decided to confront your weakness. I pm'd you some diet plans based on sone essays from my buddy, Gandhi.

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Re: Trad as a Fad?

Post by RRO » Mon Apr 30, 2012 10:07 pm

I heard geezer f'ing is all the rage in Europe....let's hope that fad is next here....
http://www.redriveroutdoors.com

If you need to contact me , email me. Less Internet, less stress

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clif
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Re: Trad as a Fad?

Post by clif » Mon Apr 30, 2012 11:06 pm

i had a waking dream.

i was boning one of those grocery store deli bought roasted chickens and one of those new wave english songs came on the radio, maybe simple minds 'don't you forget about me' or cutting crews 'i just died in your arms tonight.' but, instead of thinking about the girl i made out with in 1985 who was the first one to ever grab my nuts i thought about why pigsteak had an opinion about placing gear.

i'm not going to say where the reality was and where the dream started, but i've decided that it's all about the aesthetics. you just have to walk up to a needles route with no old filled in bolt holes or other crap (yeah, aside from some chalk) to feel what's real climbing.
training is for people who care, i have a job.

dustonian
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Re: Trad as a Fad?

Post by dustonian » Mon Apr 30, 2012 11:41 pm

clif wrote: i was boning one of those grocery store deli bought roasted chickens and one of those new wave english songs came on the radio, maybe simple minds 'don't you forget about me' or cutting crews 'i just died in your arms tonight.' but, instead of thinking about the girl i made out with in 1985 who was the first one to ever grab my nuts i thought about why pigsteak had an opinion about placing gear.
hahaha funniest thing I've ever read on this site!! But that may because I misunderstood the word "boning" on first read... or did I?? ;)
clif wrote:you just have to walk up to a needles route with no old filled in bolt holes or other crap (yeah, aside from some chalk) to feel what's real climbing.
Undoubtedly... probably the best climbing area in the US!! I feel bad for folks who haven't had that experience.

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clif
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Re: Trad as a Fad?

Post by clif » Mon Apr 30, 2012 11:50 pm

yeah, thanks d
training is for people who care, i have a job.

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Re: Trad as a Fad?

Post by graniteclimber » Tue May 01, 2012 1:25 am

Trad is the only place left to hide. After the pack of 10 year olds pissed all over the Red's 13+/14- there's just no pretending its rad any more. Every sport crag has a day care section on Saturdays. Morons walk out of a gym in Michigan and flash Red 5.11.

Good work leaving a little dirt on some holds though boys, gives a route some character. Not like some of those routes buffed to a high shine, a worn out path to no glory.

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Re: Trad as a Fad?

Post by c-foot » Tue May 01, 2012 10:21 am

If you knew Clif you would know that your first impression of "boning a chicken" was probably the right one.

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Re: Trad as a Fad?

Post by Shamis » Tue May 01, 2012 11:06 am

dustonian wrote:
clif wrote:you just have to walk up to a needles route with no old filled in bolt holes or other crap (yeah, aside from some chalk) to feel what's real climbing.
Undoubtedly... probably the best climbing area in the US!! I feel bad for folks who haven't had that experience.
Yeah, Atlantis is clearly no more difficult than a red river gorge 5.11 sport route. Troll lol lol.

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Re: Trad as a Fad?

Post by JR » Tue May 01, 2012 12:16 pm

512OW wrote:There was a day when I couldn't get up 5.11 sport routes... not even on toprope, but could do 5.11 cracks off the couch. Id have sworn then that sport climbing was harder.
This is not hyperbole.
pigsteak wrote:so all these cutting edge bold gear routes that are rated 13c and up......are you guys also saying that these really are like 5.16 or something? where does the "trad is so much harder" whining end and the grades come together?
Good Question. Good point.

I realize this is not the Trad and Sport use the same grade system thread but.....

Why is almost all of the soloing done on crack climbs?? I seem to remember Steph Davis saying that having her hands in crack was liken to an anchor. She prided herself on never slipping out of a jam. The point is that crack climbing can be very secure if you know what you are doing and a 5.11 jam crack is just 5.11 even though it would feel 5.13 for me and many other Red river pocket paddlers.

I also remember Tommy Caldwell saying that nothing made him climb at a lower level than going to Yosemite. I guess his statement will be a bit ironic if he ends up sending his project there...but still I doubt he will give it (El Cap project) a ground breaking grade (although ground breaking for El Cap) once he sends it.

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Re: Trad as a Fad?

Post by caribe » Tue May 01, 2012 12:35 pm

pigsteak wrote:
JR wrote:so all these cutting edge bold gear routes that are rated 13c and up......are you guys also saying that these really are like 5.16 or something?
Good Question. There is more here than meets the eye, and this thread has likely not breathed its last. Why are these bad asses soling the crack instead of the crimps? It could be that cracks tend not to break but crimps and other larger irregularities that we rely on tend to break. I think we may have chased old Odub off, but he does indeed have a point. IMO climbing crack is so body parameter intensive that the grade depends on the match in size between the finger and the crack. Crack is more difficult grade. IC grades go by size more or less.

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Re: Trad as a Fad?

Post by JR » Tue May 01, 2012 1:18 pm

caribe wrote: It could be that cracks tend not to break but crimps and other larger irregularities that we rely on tend to break.
I agree.
caribe wrote:IMO climbing crack is so body parameter intensive that the grade depends on the match in size between the finger and the crack. Crack is more difficult to grade. IC grades go by size more or less.
I agree sort of... I would maybe say that Crack climbs are easier to grade at Indian Creek because the routes are so homogeneous. That is to say that they are basically all the same angle and they tend to stay the same size. So once there is a precedent grade for a size and length then you just use that grade.***

Granted that sounded like I don't agree with you at all but the "body parameter" thing does come into play when certain size cracks will make for a more or less difficult experience but not necessarily be reflected in a higher or lower grade.

The "body parameter" thing happens all over the climbing map. Think small pockets, big spans, different size pinch holds yada yada yada...

*** I have never been to Indian Creek. lol.

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Re: Trad as a Fad?

Post by Syphur » Tue May 01, 2012 2:45 pm

graniteclimber wrote:Trad is the only place left to hide. After the pack of 10 year olds pissed all over the Red's 13+/14- there's just no pretending its rad any more.
Best statement thus far.

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Re: Trad as a Fad?

Post by ynp1 » Tue May 01, 2012 5:02 pm

I think the solo thing is not a great point. I agree with caribe, and I thing that is why a lot of people like to solo cracks. I remember when bacher died soloing a 5.10 face climb and many of his friends said that the warned him not to solo face climbs in that area, because hold break. soloing face climbs are a lot riskier then soloing splitter cracks. This does not mean that cracks are easier, but thet they are more secure.

Do you want me to bring OW back? Well look at his name? 5.12OW? Is he not bragging about being a 5.12 trad climber? When was the last time you heard a sport climber brag about being a 5.12 sport climber? Also he has now done plenty of 5.13s, I hope ( he is in all the maxim adds). But where are the 5.13 cracks that he claims are so easy?

But, I do agree with OW on the point that I think the grades are equal. I have climbed as hard of cracks as I have sport climbs. It really just depends on what I am focusing on at that time.
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Re: Trad as a Fad?

Post by camhead » Tue May 01, 2012 6:03 pm

Syphur wrote:
graniteclimber wrote:Trad is the only place left to hide. After the pack of 10 year olds pissed all over the Red's 13+/14- there's just no pretending its rad any more.
Best statement thus far.
The next big thing is going to be when the 10 year olds find out that they can climb all the ultra thin cracks like Meltdown and start downgrading them all.
faceholdonacrackclimbDAB!

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Re: Trad as a Fad?

Post by caribe » Tue May 01, 2012 6:26 pm

camhead wrote:
Syphur wrote:
graniteclimber wrote:Trad is the only place left to hide. After the pack of 10 year olds pissed all over the Red's 13+/14- there's just no pretending its rad any more.
Best statement thus far.
The next big thing is going to be when the 10 year olds find out that they can climb all the ultra thin cracks like Meltdown and start downgrading them all.
NOW that shit is FUNNY!!

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