true story

Placing a cam? Slotting a nut? Slinging a tree?
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JR
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Re: true story

Post by JR » Tue Dec 18, 2012 11:53 am

Good point LK Day! French Free is an important skill. You can really see the "beauty" in it when you are tired of belaying. Nothing is more frustrating, when shadows are getting long, than watching a lollygagger.

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Re: true story

Post by LK Day » Tue Dec 18, 2012 12:39 pm

And free french starts to look really, really good when you realize you're going to be spending the night on the Diamond in the rain and snow unless somebody can keep pushing the rope to the top regardless of conditions.
Last edited by LK Day on Tue Dec 18, 2012 1:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: true story

Post by Spikeddem » Tue Dec 18, 2012 12:57 pm

im not sure who is trolling who in this thread.

if everyone is trolling everyone else, is anyone being trolled? is everyone?

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pigsteak
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Re: true story

Post by pigsteak » Tue Dec 18, 2012 4:40 pm

let me break it down spike....as each of us ages, we live in our dreams of 'the good ole days"...happens to all of us..we become delusional to the purity of what we did in the past.

when change comes, which is just like breathing, we become aghast (aghast, I say) that others have found a different set of rules or interpretation of an activity that was made up to start with.

we feel left behind and decide to hold up some arbitrary standard of how things are "supposed to be"....when others deter from that, we become bewildered and start throwing out buzz phrases of "purity", and "style" and "before MTV and sticky rubber".....
Positive vibes brah...positive vibes.

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Re: true story

Post by LK Day » Tue Dec 18, 2012 5:21 pm

pigsteak wrote:let me break it down spike....as each of us ages, we live in our dreams of 'the good ole days"...happens to all of us..we become delusional to the purity of what we did in the past.

when change comes, which is just like breathing, we become aghast (aghast, I say) that others have found a different set of rules or interpretation of an activity that was made up to start with.

we feel left behind and decide to hold up some arbitrary standard of how things are "supposed to be"....when others deter from that, we become bewildered and start throwing out buzz phrases of "purity", and "style" and "before MTV and sticky rubber".....
I think you're the one that has become more and more delusional there, piggie. There are many, many different rules in the crazy climbing game that we play or played by, different areas, different times, different rules. I've always tried to be completely honest and straightforward concerning the rules I played by in my time, and when those self-imposed rules were bent. I can't think of a single person in this discussion that has been aghast, felt left behind, or become delusional, unless that person is you. I have talked about the self-imposed rules that Henry Barber and Jim Erickson played by as well, but never implied that that was how things SHOULD be done. I've also tried to be clear about what "free climbing" meant in different times, places and situations. That's all. You keep trying to twist people's words while you pretend to clarify. You can troll all you want, and you can pretend that others have become upset or bent out of shape. That doesn't make it so. If I didn't think this discussion was fun I wouldn't be participating. One of your constant themes is that trad climbing is passe, meaningless, and anything but adventurous. I still challenge you to repeat some of the old fright-fests. You'll find there's plenty of adventure to be found. Nobody will be upset if you walk them and nobody will be upset if you continue to talk smack about trad while carefully avoiding the challenge.

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Re: true story

Post by pigsteak » Tue Dec 18, 2012 6:49 pm

challenge on sir day.....next summer my quest will begin. in all seriousness, give me a list of ten "must do" classics and i will do my best to get to at least 5 of them next year.
Positive vibes brah...positive vibes.

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Re: true story

Post by LK Day » Tue Dec 18, 2012 7:54 pm

Cool. I don't know what you've already done, and all the routes I know are ANCIENT, so we should seek input from contemporary "trad daddies". But here's a short list to start.

Jungle Beat - Fun, sound rock, great pro, long (for the gorge), only one hard move on the whole route.
Last Day - Burly offwidth with an interesting crux, a little bit of steep unprotected face, three maybe four pitches, only the first one is long. Great adventure.
Meteor Maker - One pitch, a move or two of 5.10. Do not fall.
Wimp Out to Insanity Ceiling - Fantastic easy hand traverse with great exposure, somewhat sketchy 5.9 thin dihedral, short 11a roof to steep headwall.
Tower of Power - Ask Mr. Cammers.
Day Tripping - Modern continuation of my old one pitch route. Sounds like great fun.
The Quest - Crappy first pitch. Terrific crack climbing on sound rock above that. Maybe the best hanging belay in the RRG. Best done in four short pitches.
Wimpering Insanity - Greg Smith's inspired or possibly just insane creation. Stand at the base, look up, and ponder. No need to climb it, just imagine leading above the 1/4" bolts on that rock.

I'm sure there are a number of great modern routes. Anybody have suggestions for Mr. Pigsteak? Bonus points for adventure.

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Re: true story

Post by Howie Feltersnatch » Wed Dec 19, 2012 3:41 pm

The thing is Larry, Pigsteak can't go repeat your routes and have the same experience you are advocating as he will already know too much about each route before he leaves the ground. The only way he can understand what you love about rock climbing is to try and replicate your experience elsewhere; and maybe he already has and is simply trolling.

I don't know how pigsteak goes about developing new routes but I have done just a few myself and know this; absolutely nothing is as fulfilling as walking up to a gear line, becoming inspired, racking up and sending it with no inkling of what you might be getting yourself into other than what you can gather from the ground. You rely on your abilities to get yourself out of whatever jams you might get into. This to me is what defines the traditional form of rock climbing that emphasizes adventure, commitment, and the unknown above pure athleticism , rankings, and working toward attaining distant goals (which is also loads of fun and fulfilling). It is just another form of climbing like aid climbing, sport climbing, alpine and ice climbing, or bouldering; each with their own set of standards for how to approach them "fairly". The challenge shouldn't be to repeat 10 of Larry's routes but instead to go find 10 of your own gear routes that test your abilities and composure.

And then don't spray about them. New routes to onsight with absolutely no prior information are becoming less scarce all of the time. An argument could be made that by documenting your ascents and publishing them you are robbing the next generation of explorers of the opportunity to have the same experience you had. I was once told that I "owed it to the next generation of climbers" to document everything I have done so that they can know about these routes and follow them. I would argue that by documenting them I am assuring that a large portion of them cannot follow my experience because they will approach it with preconceived notions and too much information.

You wont find me disagreeing with you about "trad dads" on some accounts. Many of them simply hiding behind their inability to push themselves or reliving their old glory days (as is common in any recreational activity), but some of them are having experiences you can't have if you take out the element of the unknown.

Everything I have written so far is rambling and somewhat off topic but I have been looking for a way to express this for sometime and came to it by following the line of thinking that A) you shouldn't rap gear routes and take so much of the experience out of them and B) When you climb in an adventurous manner, and learn to not let your ego drive your climbing experience, but rather your sense of self fulfillment and adventure, then you won't give a shit who got the official First Fucking Ascent (I am assuming I understand the acronym FFA correctly).

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Re: true story

Post by ynp1 » Wed Dec 19, 2012 7:28 pm

Nice!
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Re: true story

Post by Spikeddem » Wed Dec 19, 2012 7:39 pm

pigsteak wrote:let me break it down spike....as each of us ages, we live in our dreams of 'the good ole days"...happens to all of us..we become delusional to the purity of what we did in the past.

when change comes, which is just like breathing, we become aghast (aghast, I say) that others have found a different set of rules or interpretation of an activity that was made up to start with.

we feel left behind and decide to hold up some arbitrary standard of how things are "supposed to be"....when others deter from that, we become bewildered and start throwing out buzz phrases of "purity", and "style" and "before MTV and sticky rubber".....
I can't hear you over the sound of this really HOT new dub step song! :wink:

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Re: true story

Post by pigsteak » Wed Dec 19, 2012 7:52 pm

lmao..perfect
Positive vibes brah...positive vibes.

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Re: true story

Post by pigsteak » Wed Dec 19, 2012 8:20 pm

howie i can assure you i am a die hard rap bolter. even on the handful of gear routes i have put in i always felt it was my responsibilty to be a good steward and put in anchors to control cliff top erosion. at an overused venue such as the red , much planning has to go in to making it a sustainable area.

its neat to see different visions of how we approach this game.
rapping a sport line, deciding on bolt placements, cleaning a key foothold, discovering that hidden undercling that makes the blank possible....those things move me. i suppose it is more about the athletic and less about the adventure for me.
Positive vibes brah...positive vibes.

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Re: true story

Post by ynp1 » Wed Dec 19, 2012 9:23 pm

You do not have to put anchors at the top of the cliff first... You can climb the crack ground up and make it to the top of the cliff, and then put the anchors in. You can also climb the climb to the top of the crack build a gear anchor then put in bolts.

Do you really put in bolted anchors to keep the cliff top erosion down??? I hope you are joking because that made me laugh my ass off! If that was true, then you sould also keep your climbs out of the guide book, so you will help keep the bottom of the cliff erosion down!

Not that I see a problem with bolted anchors, but what a lame PC reason...
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Re: true story

Post by pigsteak » Wed Dec 19, 2012 10:09 pm

i am nothing if not PC....
Positive vibes brah...positive vibes.

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Re: true story

Post by ynp1 » Wed Dec 19, 2012 10:36 pm

Pig, you are all over the place.. You talk out of both sides of your mouth and are all over the place...

Man you are bolting sport climbs in the Red... If you don't bolt them then somebody else will. You are not special. Get over yourself! It is not hard to bolt great climbs at the Red. The RRG is great, you are lucky that you get to climb there.

You are a waste of time and I AM OUT!
I don't have haters, I have fans in denial.

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