You hit it on the head. This is exactly the point of the grading system. Have you notice? No where on earth is there a different grading system for a safe sport route compared to a safe offwidth? It is because they are very much comparable. Do these grades feel the same to me? No. I will be the first person to say a 5.12 offwidth is next to imposible for me. I can climb any 5.12 sport route any day of the week. Why? Because that is all I train on. I have been pulling on holds 4 days a week for a long time. Just because I can't do it doesn't make it harder than it really is. A 5.12 is a 5.12.absolutsugarsmurf wrote:
One argument I can't let go is that the proper technique makes climbing different disciplines equally challenging for the same grade. At the extreme case, this can be taken to said: climbng a 5.10a offwidth, with the proper technique, is as easy as climbing a 5.10a pocketed sport jug line.
I think Royal Robbins is right. Climbing must be deliberately "learned and fostered".
As to your arguement that it takes longer to learn. Sure, for me it took longer to learn. So what? Think of it like a trick. The point of a trick is for it to look a certain way. Another point of the trick is that everyone doesn't know how it is performed. Is the trick "hard" to perform? Maybe, maybe not. Once you figure out how it is performed you are on the road to mastering that trick. Once you have mastered the trick or say 5.8 handjaming then you can tell how hard it is.
I've ben an engineering student for eight years now and am about to finish my PhD dissertation. If I look back to the material I learned as a junior, such as partial differential equations, thermodynamics, signals and systems, etc, I find much of the material to be "easy" due to my experience. But only because I went through the extremeley "difficult" process of learning it in the first place. It was hard as hell the first time through. You can't discount the experience. Tell someone in calc 2 that it's easy because you've completed calc 5. Anyone would say you're an asshole. 5.12 climbers (of any discipline) saying a 5.9 is easy are essentially doing the same thing.
Beautiful. Finally. Here it is. You get it.
Is Calc 2 still Calc 2?
In other words is 5.10 still 5.10 regardless if it is trad or sport? You bet your ass.