To bolt or not to bolt: That is the question

Gaston? High Step? Drop Knee? Talk in here.
Post Reply

Would you bolt a sketchy crack/seam?

Poll ended at Fri Sep 25, 2009 12:06 am

Yes
24
49%
No
20
41%
Say no to crack
5
10%
 
Total votes: 49

MADMIKE
Gumby
Gumby
Posts: 10
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2006 8:29 pm
Location: Richmond, KY

To bolt or not to bolt: That is the question

Post by MADMIKE » Tue Sep 15, 2009 12:06 am

Hola amigos,

I have a question that I am just curious on what everybody else thinks: Would you bolt a crack/seam that protects with sketchy small nuts into a cool, protected sport route?

Salud!

User avatar
Saxman
Poseur Jerry
Posts: 3127
Joined: Fri Mar 28, 2003 3:10 pm
Location: Peru

Post by Saxman » Tue Sep 15, 2009 7:44 am

Unless it is on land you own, no. Sketchy is a relative term.
The theory of evolution is just as stupid as the theories of gravity and electromagnetism.

dhoyne
Star Trek Kid
Posts: 1240
Joined: Mon Jun 30, 2003 1:47 pm
Location: Stuck between a rock and a hard place

Post by dhoyne » Tue Sep 15, 2009 7:47 am

Would you glue holds onto a sport route with a hard crux? Same ethical question.
Sarcasm is a tool the weak use to avoid confrontation. People with any balls just outright lie.

[quote="Meadows"]I try not to put it in my mouth now, but when I do, I hold it with just my lips.[/quote]

User avatar
rjackson
Full of (sh)It
Posts: 928
Joined: Fri Jun 20, 2003 11:26 am
Location: Between a sport and a trad place.

Post by rjackson » Tue Sep 15, 2009 7:57 am

The question begs though, is it more than 50% crack? And if not, what's the rest of the route like? There's a lot of mixed lines and sport routes that could have been trad lines. And probably a few trad lines out there that should be sport.

If it's pure, then leave it be.

If it's contrived, then make something cool out of it.

Just stirring the pot...
Pick myself up, stop lookin' back.
Grand Funk Railroad

User avatar
krampus
Snake Charmer
Posts: 3933
Joined: Tue Dec 26, 2006 5:31 am
Location: avoiding leaves
Contact:

Post by krampus » Tue Sep 15, 2009 8:23 am

sketchy small nuts....like "smoothy nut".....hell no, if it protects then keep it simple, but i guess those nuts are not really sketchy. If your only protection for a 20 foot run out crux section was a micronut (rated to 1KN), then yes please add a bolt.
How you compare may not be as important as to whom you are compared

Wes
Believer
Posts: 5180
Joined: Thu Sep 19, 2002 11:46 am
Location: Torrent!
Contact:

Post by Wes » Tue Sep 15, 2009 9:14 am

Mixed routes are dumb, 99.99% of the time. Only time the make sense is when the route is 90% gear and just needs a bolt or two to protect a blank spot. Bolt the world!
"There is no secret ingredient"

Po, the kung fu panda

JR
Official Route Quality and Grade Accuracy Analyst
Posts: 1128
Joined: Tue Oct 08, 2002 2:18 pm

Post by JR » Tue Sep 15, 2009 10:12 am

Wes wrote:Mixed routes are dumb, 99.99% of the time. Only time the make sense is when the route is 90% gear and just needs a bolt or two to protect a blank spot. Bolt the world!
Mixed routes are dumb.

Did a search on mixed climbs. Lets take a look at some of the more popular mixed routes.

*Red Hot Chili Pepper 10d FRC It's a sport route. Needs one more bolt.

*Face up to that Crack 8- LF. It's a sport route. No real need for the bolt. Crack is high enough up. Cam optional.

*Central Scrutinizer 5.9 FRC. One bolt low to get you to the gear face climb. Not a sport climb.

You are right Wes. The only time it makes sense to have a mixed route is when it is 90% gear and just needs a one bolt to protect a blank spot.

If the routes are on average below 90 feet. One bolt at most. Boom. New rule.

Unless you don't like the rule then do what ever you want with the drill. I will try to climb it either way.

User avatar
ynp1
still a dumbass
Posts: 1324
Joined: Thu Sep 16, 2004 6:54 pm
Location: Bishop, CA

Post by ynp1 » Tue Sep 15, 2009 10:31 am

i think you should fix small nuts in the crack and tell people to leave them in the route description. or use pitons... fuck putting bolts next to a crack...
I don't have haters, I have fans in denial.

toad857
Loser
Loser
Posts: 1691
Joined: Thu Dec 13, 2007 12:31 pm

Post by toad857 » Tue Sep 15, 2009 10:43 am

adding a bolt doesn't take away anyone's ability to climb it the original way. if you want to protect yourself with shitty pro and skip a bolt, go ahead. right? wouldn't it just allow people without a death wish to climb the route?

and what's the difference between ethic and ego, anyway?

and let the hilarity ensue...

User avatar
pigsteak
The Crocodile Hunter
The Crocodile Hunter
Posts: 9684
Joined: Tue Jun 17, 2003 2:49 pm
Location: Like Prince my name has now changed..please call me Piglovely.

Post by pigsteak » Tue Sep 15, 2009 10:43 am

ynp1 wrote:i think you should fix small nuts in the crack and tell people to leave them in the route description. or use pitons... fuck putting bolts next to a crack...
?????? what in the world is the difference? fixed nut, fixed bolt.., if you fix a nut, you have taken away the opportunity for a traddie to place his own gear. at least with the bolt they can skip it.
Positive vibes brah...positive vibes.

pkananen
Poser
Poser
Posts: 368
Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2007 10:20 pm
Location: cinci

Post by pkananen » Tue Sep 15, 2009 10:57 am

This is the Red. When you go Muir, it's stupid to bring a cam to climb a good sport route that's really just missing a bolt.

User avatar
ahab
Star Trek Kid
Posts: 1024
Joined: Mon Jul 30, 2007 1:36 pm
Location: up above it

Post by ahab » Tue Sep 15, 2009 11:26 am

pkananen wrote:This is the Red. When you go Muir, it's stupid to bring a cam to climb a good sport route that's really just missing a bolt.
total number of mixed climbs in the muir: 32 out of 323 = 10%
total number of mixed climbs in all other rrg crags: 51 out of 1596 = 3%

???

bolt the damn route, or leave it clean for those who still have ethics and good style...never mind just bolt it.

the 90% rule seems logical.
buy the Ticket take the Ride

User avatar
ahab
Star Trek Kid
Posts: 1024
Joined: Mon Jul 30, 2007 1:36 pm
Location: up above it

Post by ahab » Tue Sep 15, 2009 11:28 am

toad857 wrote:adding a bolt doesn't take away anyone's ability to climb it the original way.
i want you to go stand in the corner and think about what you just said.
buy the Ticket take the Ride

TradMike
BAM!
Posts: 1171
Joined: Wed Nov 06, 2002 10:57 pm
Location: Cincinnati, OH
Contact:

Post by TradMike » Tue Sep 15, 2009 11:40 am

I just saw someone die on a 5.10d X and helped out with the recovery. All his gear pulled and he landed on his head.

If it is mostly trad and one bolt would prevent a death then just add one bolt for the blank section. If it protects with gear that won't hold a fall, bolt it. The area, history and first ascent need to be taken into account as well. If sport routes exist all around then bolts will be more accepted. If it is a trad area then one bolt might be tolerated. The New has a lot of trad routes with a bolt or two.

User avatar
SCIN
BANNED
Posts: 4981
Joined: Fri Sep 20, 2002 9:19 am
Location: Lexington, KY

Post by SCIN » Tue Sep 15, 2009 11:56 am

Pfff...no question. Bolt it.
Yo Ray jack dynomite! Listen to my beat box! Bew ch ch pff BEW ch ch pfff! Sweet!

-Horatio

Post Reply