Grid Bolting at the Red

Gaston? High Step? Drop Knee? Talk in here.

Grid Bolting at the Red

Postby pigsteak » Sat Nov 20, 2010 10:52 pm

Seems recently I have caught more of a whiff of folks talking about grid bolting, extensions, linkups, etc. Some say "oh it is all sport climbing and therefore arbitrary" while others say the undertow wall is a grid bolted outdoor gym.

for developers and climbers alike, what are your personal thoughts on how close is too close for two sport routes?

also, how about the add two bolts between two lines to make a link up, like the new thing at drive by?

is there anything for you personally that is "over the top" as far as sport routes?

if you got to a jug, and could clip bolts to your left and to your right, would you say those lines are too close to each other?

do developers need to think abit more and set a mandatory span (say 30 feet) between lines?

and lastly, are developers being irresponsible by not using stanless steel glueins at the Red? immediate satisfaction over long term safety? or since they foot the bill for hardware, does anyone else even have a say?
Positive vibes brah...positive vibes.
User avatar
pigsteak
The Crocodile Hunter
The Crocodile Hunter
 
Posts: 9684
Joined: Tue Jun 17, 2003 2:49 pm
Location: Like Prince my name has now changed..please call me Piglovely.

Re: Grid Bolting at the Red

Postby aburgoon » Sun Nov 21, 2010 12:00 am

If you fart in the video store, and no one seems to notice, do you think they are just being polite?
aburgoon
Gumby
Gumby
 
Posts: 82
Joined: Thu Sep 09, 2010 11:04 am

Re: Grid Bolting at the Red

Postby dustonian » Sun Nov 21, 2010 9:46 am

What about farting in an elevator just before someone enters on another floor?
dustonian
BANNED
 
Posts: 3089
Joined: Mon Jul 27, 2009 10:46 am
Location: Lex/Zoe

Re: Grid Bolting at the Red

Postby heavyc » Sun Nov 21, 2010 12:07 pm

here is my two cents (and its not even worth that) first of all hangers and bolts are not that noticeable to "spoil aesthetics" secondly very few sport lines in the Red are currently separated enough from others to make grid bolting an issue with spoiling aesthetics any further, (an exception would be The gift to add something close to it would be a crime) plus I look at sport climbing as having two goals: 1) fun 2) setting up a challenge for someone, so taking all this into account I think the more challenges i.e. more routes available at every grade the better off we are, so routes like Absolute Zero & Straight out of Locash in my opinion are great, if you really want aesthetics then go climb some beautiful multipitch route somewhere else, the Red is all about steep single pitch sport climbing, I do however agree that once you crowd the lines enough that you would get confused on which bolt to climb to next then it gets a little ridiculous
heavyc
Gumby
Gumby
 
Posts: 151
Joined: Wed Jul 30, 2003 2:56 pm

Re: Grid Bolting at the Red

Postby JR » Sun Nov 21, 2010 12:56 pm

To be against grid bolting is to be against sport climbing.
JR
Official Route Quality and Grade Accuracy Analyst
 
Posts: 1128
Joined: Tue Oct 08, 2002 2:18 pm

Re: Grid Bolting at the Red

Postby schwagpad » Sun Nov 21, 2010 12:57 pm

There is no clear ethical argument here, it's just annoying when you're on a route and you start wondering if the holds you're on are "off route" because you're staring at the bolts on the next route over. Boulder canyon is a great example of an overbolted crag. It coulda been a super cool trad area, more in the spirit of eldo, but alas.
schwagpad
innocent bystander
 
Posts: 286
Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2007 12:04 am
Location: the lab

Re: Grid Bolting at the Red

Postby pigsteak » Sun Nov 21, 2010 1:14 pm

schwagpad wrote:There is no clear ethical argument here, it's just annoying when you're on a route and you start wondering if the holds you're on are "off route" because you're staring at the bolts on the next route over. Boulder canyon is a great example of an overbolted crag. It coulda been a super cool trad area, more in the spirit of eldo, but alas.



yes, having to wonder about "off route" holds seems very wierd.

I always wonder why having bolts every 5-6 feet vertically gets no complaints, but having bolts every 5-6 feet horizontally brings out the crag police....
Positive vibes brah...positive vibes.
User avatar
pigsteak
The Crocodile Hunter
The Crocodile Hunter
 
Posts: 9684
Joined: Tue Jun 17, 2003 2:49 pm
Location: Like Prince my name has now changed..please call me Piglovely.

Re: Grid Bolting at the Red

Postby JR » Sun Nov 21, 2010 1:25 pm

schwagpad wrote:There is no clear ethical argument here,


and

schwagpad wrote: I'll probably chop this over christmas, and put up my own linkup beginning in the Nothing crack and traversing left. This is the ethically proper way to rap bolt this crag.
JR
Official Route Quality and Grade Accuracy Analyst
 
Posts: 1128
Joined: Tue Oct 08, 2002 2:18 pm

Re: Grid Bolting at the Red

Postby RRO » Sun Nov 21, 2010 1:40 pm

to me its little to do with the impact on the cliff. its less than a 6 inch hole that in the rocks time is comparable or less than a thorn prick you get while out bushwhacking.

but there are a couple reasons grid bolting when we have so much rock available to us is goofy.

movement aesthetics, wondering if off route on an outdoor climb is goofy as hell imo.

the biggest reason grid bolting or putting up a route every 5 feet is goofy is the impact on the base and access trails. especially when your talking about routes in the moderate range or if your talking about how climbing access trails have normally been built in the past, straight up with no thought to sustainability. i have bolted routes/developed areas that i think now may a little too close, not due to rock or movement problems but mainly due to damage at the base and trail erosion.

a lot of development is going on in the pmrp, as developers we have to start thinking of impact 15 years from now. look at roadside slabs, phantasia access trails and base, shire and many other areas that are loved to death. its up to us to change the way we develop the access trails and try to think ahead to prevent base impact and if impact areas are going to be an issue learn how to put fixes in place to help prevent the problem. we also need to learn that every piece of stone does not need developed. think ahead before you sink those bolts, if you bolt it they will come.

ask yourself if the area can take the impact and is the route really worth it ?(this is a much to me as anyone else)

i have a ton of literature available if anyone developing areas would like to look at.i also have "to do" projects all over the property documented with detailed fixes. i would also love to come out and help with the trail development as the area get open to the masses and to get ready if there are obvious problem zones. if we plan ahead we dont have to work on the same trails every year and can spend more time opening up new areas to help spread the crowds and allow us to use the land we own.
http://www.redriveroutdoors.com

If you need to contact me , email me. Less Internet, less stress
RRO
Fluffy
 
Posts: 1949
Joined: Thu Feb 03, 2005 12:18 am
Location: woods

Re: Grid Bolting at the Red

Postby clif » Sun Nov 21, 2010 2:29 pm

clint eastwood is crying
training is for people who care, i have a job.
User avatar
clif
Loser
Loser
 
Posts: 1731
Joined: Thu Dec 25, 2008 5:24 pm

Re: Grid Bolting at the Red

Postby aburgoon » Sun Nov 21, 2010 8:16 pm

JR wrote:To be against grid bolting is to be against sport climbing.


I disagree.
aburgoon
Gumby
Gumby
 
Posts: 82
Joined: Thu Sep 09, 2010 11:04 am

Re: Grid Bolting at the Red

Postby shear » Sun Nov 21, 2010 8:41 pm

NICER is indeed a word.


...and linkups in the red are retarded. WTF is a 2 bolt link up doing at Drive by?
shear
Gumby
Gumby
 
Posts: 86
Joined: Sat Mar 01, 2008 6:51 am

Re: Grid Bolting at the Red

Postby OZ » Sun Nov 21, 2010 8:53 pm

I'm against. I'd opt have routes that are more isolated from each other rather than having to stand shoulder to shoulder with other asshole climbers and listen to their inane comments all damn day long.

And, what RRO said.
OZ
Gumby
Gumby
 
Posts: 129
Joined: Fri Jun 04, 2004 11:55 am

Re: Grid Bolting at the Red

Postby dustonian » Sun Nov 21, 2010 8:59 pm

Absolute Zero looks like a nice line & makes sense aesthetically (the start of The Nothing looks like shit & 99% of climbers can't do it anyway). You've really got to look at each route on a case-by-case basis. In this case it works since you're standing on a big ledge that divides these routes in half anyway. Are you guys really that ethically or aesthetically offended by this to talk so much shit about a route you've never tried or probably even looked at recently?
dustonian
BANNED
 
Posts: 3089
Joined: Mon Jul 27, 2009 10:46 am
Location: Lex/Zoe

Next

Return to Sport

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests