Bolts that pull out?

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Re: Bolts that pull out?

Post by EGRoy » Thu May 05, 2011 11:04 am

'Mountaineering: Freedom of the Hills' is a great resource. If that book does not go into the depth you want, the authors provide a comprehensive list of furhter reading material that will. Check out Rick Webers guide to bolting in the red, which can be found on the muir valley website to understand the basics of bolting.

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Re: Bolts that pull out?

Post by jonlong724 » Thu May 05, 2011 12:09 pm

Andrew wrote:What climbing website have you been hanging out at that suggest that bolts pulling is a common thing?
I haven't seen anything that says it's common, and I've only read about a few instances of it. I'm just trying to account for as much as possible so that I can feel comfortable about my safety.

I have been researching the different types of bolts out there and what types of rock they are suitable for. I guess my fear is that some guy who doesn't know what they're doing bolted some routes w/ bolts that aren't suitable for sandstone, or didn't check the integrity of the rock. I'm not really familiar with the amount of inspection and maintenance that goes on at RRG (or anywhere, for that matter). I figured you guys would be a good resource to see how trustworthy the fixed protection is, and if there are any areas that I should avoid.

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Re: Bolts that pull out?

Post by dustonian » Thu May 05, 2011 12:27 pm

All the well traveled moderate crags you'll be going to for the most part will be over-equipped with brand new shiny ugly bolts. You should really focus on your belaying, partner's belaying, knots, rope management, falling technique, anchor/route cleaning, clipping, rappelling, and lastly climbing technique and stop worrying about bolts for the next several years.

One thing: Do NOT ever thread your rope directly through a bolt hanger OR glue-in eyebolt!!

Oh yeah, watch out for any route with the name 'Trummel" in the FA ;)

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Re: Bolts that pull out?

Post by TradMike » Thu May 05, 2011 12:38 pm

It was a long time ago but I was around when the bolt blew out on Sand at Roadside. It failed the rock around the bolt to about 1/2" from the end of the bolt. The bolt then bent and pulled out the rest of the way. The belayer was slammed into the first bolt and the climber stopped a few feet from the ground. Close call but everyone was ok. The climber put the bolt on his necklace by the hanger as a souvenir. He explained to me that he was running laps and flamed out, that was the only reason he fell. I think bolters since then have learned of the problem with soft stone and leaving a bad bolt in place for others to use. Not that it won't happen again though. I have since ran into that climber again out in Red Rocks. He even resoled my shoes.

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Re: Bolts that pull out?

Post by pigsteak » Thu May 05, 2011 7:32 pm

Yes, the Trummel dude is a work of art....steer clear.

A few years ago when I was bolting at curbside, I twisted the head off of a Powers bolt. Pretty spooky actually, as I wasn't anywhere near sufficient torque. it was the third bolt on a new route, so if it would have failed on a fall the consequences would have been very ugly.

I took it to Rick and Liz to look at.....I think it was decided that it was an anomoly in the metal. Rick, do you still have that bolt?
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Re: Bolts that pull out?

Post by dustonian » Thu May 05, 2011 7:41 pm

I did that once too on a 3/8", but it was because I bottomed out the hole... easy (& quite heartbreaking) to do when hand-drilling on lead!

I assume you had to redrill the hole as the wedge and sleeve were stuck in there, no? We'll never know for sure unless you reused the hole...

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Re: Bolts that pull out?

Post by pigsteak » Thu May 05, 2011 9:29 pm

no, that is the weird part..like truly, I had perhaps 10-15 ft lbs of torque on the thing..it snapped under incredibly low pressure..I was able to take my fingers and pull the rest out of the hole.....
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Re: Bolts that pull out?

Post by dustonian » Thu May 05, 2011 9:34 pm

Huh, so you were able to reuse the same hole with a different bolt? It doesn't take much torque to snap the bolt if it does bottom out... not that that's what happened anyway. I'm sure Powers has factory defects like any other company... blame China.

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Re: Bolts that pull out?

Post by Josephine » Fri May 06, 2011 3:17 pm

i think you're WAY more likely to be injured hiking up to the cliff than by a bolt failing. to my knowledge, there are no recorded cases of serious injury or death in RRG due to bolt failure - and total bolt failures can be counted on 1 hand. on the other hand there are HUNDREDS (if not thousands) of serious injuries due to belayer failure.

make sure you learn how to properly set up and clean anchors BEFORE you leave the gym. contact www.redriveroutdoors.com if you're not 100% solid with this. the U-Climb clinics (spring in the new, fall in the red) are also a great way to learn how to transition from outdoor to indoor climbing. http://www.mountaingear.com/uclimb/even ... eventid=15
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Re: Bolts that pull out?

Post by steep4me » Fri May 06, 2011 3:54 pm

bentley wrote:The answer to your question is no

On a slightly different note good luck with this post cause your about to be raped over the coals! Be sure to double check your knot and make sure your belayer knows exactly what they are doing. The red is a great plAce and you will have a great time! Seriously.

Bentley, You just wasted a perfect opportunity to work on our problem with overcrowding at the Red :roll:

Yes, bolts come out frequently and people are constantly falling to their deaths at the Red due to shoddy bolting in soft choss by people who know nothing about setting routes. Tell everyone that this is a dangerous place to climb and nobody should ever attempt to come to the Red (at least for the next 25 years or so). Spread the word! :wink:
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Re: Bolts that pull out?

Post by THB » Fri May 06, 2011 8:05 pm

You should most certainly be wary of bolts pulling out. This sandstone is super soft and chossy. I would never trust my life to a bolt that was placed by someone other than myself, especially in the RRG. You're probably better off climbing on trad lines, you can trust that kind of protection since you place it yourself. You are probably better off to reschedule your trip and go climb at Seneca, The Gunks, or T-Wall. Plus, everyone knows that sport climbing is neither.

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Re: Bolts that pull out?

Post by ahab » Tue May 17, 2011 8:28 pm

jonlong724? bolts "pulling out"? & most surprisingly, 2 pages of replies?

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Re: Bolts that pull out?

Post by krampus » Wed May 18, 2011 7:50 am

Ha, nice catch ahab, welcome back
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Re: Bolts that pull out?

Post by Toad » Wed May 18, 2011 12:29 pm

Pulling bolts is one thing.
Just don't pull out your nuts.
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Re: Bolts that pull out?

Post by hypro » Tue May 24, 2011 5:39 pm

At first glance i thought it said "'bolts that put out'"

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