How to apply Fixed gear in the Red

Gaston? High Step? Drop Knee? Talk in here.

How to use Perma-draws in the Red

None
9
17%
Anchors only
1
2%
Anchors and midway point to facilitate cleaning steep routes
13
24%
Anchors, midway points, and hard clips
3
6%
Mixed approach depending on overhang angle
24
44%
Entire routes
4
7%
 
Total votes: 54

aburgoon
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Re: How to apply Fixed gear in the Red

Post by aburgoon » Sat Oct 22, 2011 8:18 pm

Bump

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Clevis Hitch
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Re: How to apply Fixed gear in the Red

Post by Clevis Hitch » Sun Oct 23, 2011 9:25 pm

what ever happened to "style"?

Shit, what ever happened to "Class"?

Everybody seemes so concerned to dumb it down so the least able or the barely qualified can suceed. I have climbed hard twelves, I mosetly stick to 10's and elevens because I look good and I feel good doing it. Its not some desperate-breathless-stab-at-the-hope-of-pulling-it-off-just-this-once-non-climbing-climbing.

develop a sense of style, then go climb.
If you give a man a match, he'll be warm for a minute. If you set him on fire, he'll be warm for the rest of his life!

captain static
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Re: How to apply Fixed gear in the Red

Post by captain static » Tue Oct 25, 2011 11:01 pm

It is misguided at best to pursue a resolution to this issue based on a poll or vote. I am afraid that if the RRG ethic is going to be based on the popular vote then more closures and restrictions are to follow. To me safety, first, and then Leave No Trace should be the primary considerations. Generally, from a safety standpoint it is best to use your own gear and from an LNT standpoint it is best to remove your gear when you are done for the day. I concede that there are some situations where a fixed draw might improve safety or reduce impact. Thus my personal position is that fixed gear should be placed judiciously and only when necessary to increase safety or reduce impact. One of my biggest fears with fixed gear becoming the norm is that it will be expected. This becomes a problem in the Red when people are unable to know the difference between public lands and private lands with differing rules. On several occassions I have heard our area referred to collectively as "The Park". If fixed draws exist on every bolt in one part of "The Park" why aren't they everywhere? This also becomes a potential safety problem for aspiring climbers from our area who become used to a "gym like" experience with closely spaced bolts and fixed draws and then go to another area with a different ethic such as, "placing your own draws is the norm, bolts are spaced assuming you are solid at that grade, if the climb backs off from that grade no bolts are placed."
"Be responsible for your actions and sensitive to the concerns of other visitors and land managers. ... Your reward is the opportunity to climb in one of the most beautiful areas in this part of the country." John H. Bronaugh

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clif
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Re: How to apply Fixed gear in the Red

Post by clif » Tue Oct 25, 2011 11:26 pm

right on. i think some complication and confusion is due to 8 year olds with no experience that now climb 13's. ban them.
training is for people who care, i have a job.

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Rotarypwr345704
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Re: How to apply Fixed gear in the Red

Post by Rotarypwr345704 » Tue Oct 25, 2011 11:36 pm

I would dare to say that the 8 year old are smarter than half the pro-permadraw/convenience sluts on this site.
I fell for the everyone-shut-up-and-ill-donate-money scheme. -Ray Ellington, guidebook gawd

My name is Sam Douglass and I love to pose for photo shoots holding on to a jug with only one hand (and no feet!) with my best friend Ian.

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clif
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Re: How to apply Fixed gear in the Red

Post by clif » Tue Oct 25, 2011 11:47 pm

no you didunt. yeah, so even if it is true, why would you want either of them to know?
training is for people who care, i have a job.

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Rotarypwr345704
I said I'd donate $100 to the RRGCC, and nobody posted in the MF thread after I said that
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Re: How to apply Fixed gear in the Red

Post by Rotarypwr345704 » Tue Oct 25, 2011 11:51 pm

Touche Honkey face. I didn't think this one through very well did I?
I fell for the everyone-shut-up-and-ill-donate-money scheme. -Ray Ellington, guidebook gawd

My name is Sam Douglass and I love to pose for photo shoots holding on to a jug with only one hand (and no feet!) with my best friend Ian.

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clif
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Re: How to apply Fixed gear in the Red

Post by clif » Wed Oct 26, 2011 12:12 am

i'll have you know Josephine Baker taught me how to shit at the crag.
training is for people who care, i have a job.

aburgoon
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Re: How to apply Fixed gear in the Red

Post by aburgoon » Wed Oct 26, 2011 7:18 am

captain static wrote:It is misguided at best to pursue a resolution to this issue based on a poll or vote. I am afraid that if the RRG ethic is going to be based on the popular vote then more closures and restrictions are to follow. To me safety, first, and then Leave No Trace should be the primary considerations. Generally, from a safety standpoint it is best to use your own gear and from an LNT standpoint it is best to remove your gear when you are done for the day. I concede that there are some situations where a fixed draw might improve safety or reduce impact. Thus my personal position is that fixed gear should be placed judiciously and only when necessary to increase safety or reduce impact. One of my biggest fears with fixed gear becoming the norm is that it will be expected. This becomes a problem in the Red when people are unable to know the difference between public lands and private lands with differing rules. On several occassions I have heard our area referred to collectively as "The Park". If fixed draws exist on every bolt in one part of "The Park" why aren't they everywhere? This also becomes a potential safety problem for aspiring climbers from our area who become used to a "gym like" experience with closely spaced bolts and fixed draws and then go to another area with a different ethic such as, "placing your own draws is the norm, bolts are spaced assuming you are solid at that grade, if the climb backs off from that grade no bolts are placed."
It was never the intention of this poll to resolve the issue, rather it was to display the plurality of views. I've repeatedly stated here that this poll in no way shape or form creates a mandate for any group.

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