Project Draws: How Long is Too Long?

Gaston? High Step? Drop Knee? Talk in here.

How long do you typically work a project route for before you send?

1 week
5
29%
2 weeks
0
No votes
3 weeks
3
18%
4 weeks
2
12%
5 weeks
1
6%
Less than 2 months
4
24%
More than 2 months
2
12%
 
Total votes: 17

dustonian
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Re: Project Draws: How Long is Too Long?

Post by dustonian » Mon Oct 24, 2011 1:48 pm

NEW RULE: EVERYONE MUST DATE-STAMP THEIR QUICKDRAWS!!!

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Re: Project Draws: How Long is Too Long?

Post by climb2core » Mon Oct 24, 2011 1:49 pm

Dustin, who do you think is leaving up all these mank project draws??? It is NOT the visitors that come once or twice a month, or once or twice a year. It is the local climbers and developers that either live close to the Red or stay for a season before moving on to Bishop. I would guess 95% of the draws are put up by the Lexington locals or seasonal locals... Hardly a huge group to reach out to.

Why is it that project gear gets left and abandoned... like Taste the Rainbow for example? Doesn't some local leave it up to be nice for the others to use and just kind of forgets about it because they left town or already sent? So, how about people stop leaving aluminum gear up for the others to ride "for awhile"...
Last edited by climb2core on Mon Oct 24, 2011 2:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Project Draws: How Long is Too Long?

Post by clif » Mon Oct 24, 2011 1:56 pm

dustonian wrote:
Be sure to take down all the draws in Hell while you're at it too... or the "ethical" code doesn't apply there because it's "secret"? Same goes for A6, PG, Dark Side, Gold Coast, Bob Marley, Purgatory, Shady Grove, Drive By... you should also go on a roadtrip to Rifle, Maple, Jailhouse, NRG, Rumney, and dozens of other crags to swipe their draws too... you know, spread the fervor like a religious fundamentalist. Go strip Muir as well by dark of night.

At some point you gotta face it, this ain't 1997 anymore. If the draws are sketchy or their presence on a route truly offends your delicate sensibilities, then take 'em down... it ain't that complex. We're big boys & girls with our own eyeballs and tactile sense. Otherwise fuckin climb and stop proselytizing everyone, for god's sake... it is truly irritating.

On another note, if you guys think you can "educate" every single visitor to the RRG into complying with whatever dictates the "community" decides, you are straight-up delusional. All these stupid climbing "rules" everyone is throwing out are a pain in the ass. Just climb and take charge of your own safety. If a draw breaks it's your own damn fault for clipping it, dumb ass. All this kicking and screaming by the CREW et al. is plain desperate. Go volunteer or work on something important!

BTW Hugh you are replacing any and all worn-out SSGI's on the Undertow after a couple years of dumbasses lowering directly through them. I give Chainsaw 5-6 years tops with "our community's" new holier-than-thou dictates.
i'm glad you edited the initial post. i've highlighted what i would've kept.
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Re: Project Draws: How Long is Too Long?

Post by dustonian » Mon Oct 24, 2011 1:58 pm

climb2core wrote:Dustin, who do you think is leaving up all these mank project draws??? It is NOT the visitors that come once or twice a month, or once or twice a year. It is the local climbers and developers that either live close to the Red or stay for a season before moving on to Bishop. I would guess 95% of the draws are put up by the locals... Hardly a huge group to reach out to.
Well, that's like your opinion, man. I don't know who is leaving them, but the fact of the matter is they leave them. It's not really a "moral" or education issue but a pragmatic one. The preaching from the outspoken minority is kind of inane given the historical reality of crap left on walls. Preaching on the internet about how bad people are doesn't do jack shit to affect that. Getting all excited for a couple months once every 6 years for a big "cleanup" does slightly but not much more in the grand scheme of things. The only real solution is to check your gear before trusting it, remove actual mank, and think for yourself. The rest of it is all utopian cumbaya crap.

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Re: Project Draws: How Long is Too Long?

Post by pigsteak » Mon Oct 24, 2011 2:01 pm

hmmm, does this also apply to trail days and packing out poop and unleashed dogs...all the hollering needs to stop cuz it does no good?
Positive vibes brah...positive vibes.

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Re: Project Draws: How Long is Too Long?

Post by dustonian » Mon Oct 24, 2011 2:05 pm

Nope, there is a big difference because those are annual or semi-annual well-organized events with hundreds of volunteers to improve issues on which an overwhelming majority agree. The Lode incident was a half-ass effort by a loud minority to improve/make worse a minor issue which will not be sustained over time.
Last edited by dustonian on Mon Oct 24, 2011 2:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Project Draws: How Long is Too Long?

Post by pigsteak » Mon Oct 24, 2011 2:08 pm

I thought you'd say that..in that case, I'll scream even louder. PD's are a really bad idea. lazy climbers making their "sport" even lazier. only if all you pro PD's folks agree that bolting trad lines is also OK will I even agree with your "justification" for leaving this visual trash on the walls. come on, cracks need to get moving..this ain't 1997 ya know.
Positive vibes brah...positive vibes.

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Re: Project Draws: How Long is Too Long?

Post by shear » Mon Oct 24, 2011 2:11 pm

I'm seeing "fixed draws" and "project draws" interchanged here. They aren't the same thing. Fixed gear, IMO, has a quinklink involved...project gear doesn't. As soon as someone can give me an official sanctioned definition of "fixed" gear...then maybe we can actually have a discussion. This is ridiculous. I'm so glad the Red isn't my local climbing area.

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Re: Project Draws: How Long is Too Long?

Post by blakeleathers » Mon Oct 24, 2011 2:19 pm

GTFO

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Re: Project Draws: How Long is Too Long?

Post by Rotarypwr345704 » Mon Oct 24, 2011 3:43 pm

This is really super easy to fix. There needs to be no education. Start stripping draws left overnight. I'm going to start taking draws off every route I get on. If you don't want your draws missing, don't leave 'em. Simple. When this happens enough, People will stop leaving them. If you have a problem with that, feel free to get over it.
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Re: Project Draws: How Long is Too Long?

Post by climb2core » Mon Oct 24, 2011 3:56 pm

Rotarypwr345704 wrote: I'm going to start taking draws off every route I get on. If you don't want your draws missing, don't leave 'em. Simple.

http://www.dpmclimbing.com/articles/view/robbing-sport

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Re: Project Draws: How Long is Too Long?

Post by Rotarypwr345704 » Mon Oct 24, 2011 4:01 pm

^Yup. I remember seeing that. Anyway. Don't want your shit missing? Don't leave it.
I fell for the everyone-shut-up-and-ill-donate-money scheme. -Ray Ellington, guidebook gawd

My name is Sam Douglass and I love to pose for photo shoots holding on to a jug with only one hand (and no feet!) with my best friend Ian.

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Re: Project Draws: How Long is Too Long?

Post by Rotarypwr345704 » Mon Oct 24, 2011 4:03 pm

Unlike troll man though, you can have them back. I don't really care to have anyone else's quickdraws, I can buy my own.
I fell for the everyone-shut-up-and-ill-donate-money scheme. -Ray Ellington, guidebook gawd

My name is Sam Douglass and I love to pose for photo shoots holding on to a jug with only one hand (and no feet!) with my best friend Ian.

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Re: Project Draws: How Long is Too Long?

Post by climb2core » Mon Oct 24, 2011 4:11 pm

What will you do when you encounter PD's? Have you sent all those 13's removing other people's gear and/or cleaning your gear at the end of each day? How are you planning on returning the gear? Are you leaving at the chains, the base, or Miguels? What are your projects? Why do you get to determine the ethics for the community?

And I ask all this, but also want you to know... I have never left up draws over-night at the Red and I don't have a problem with cleaning my gear at the end of each day, no matter the grade or steepness. Do a TR burn to collect your gear and increase your fitness...

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Re: Project Draws: How Long is Too Long?

Post by chosen1 » Mon Oct 24, 2011 4:18 pm

pigsteak wrote:I thought you'd say that..in that case, I'll scream even louder. PD's are a really bad idea. lazy climbers making their "sport" even lazier. only if all you pro PD's folks agree that bolting trad lines is also OK will I even agree with your "justification" for leaving this visual trash on the walls. come on, cracks need to get moving..this ain't 1997 ya know.
Does this make you and other developers who have posted on here "lazy" for leaving draws up on red-tagged routes? Because if it's about "trash" being on the wall, then let's be consistent. But maybe you don't really believe this who knows. You are usually talking out of both sides of your mouth just to keep the threads going.

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