Decking at the Lode...

Gaston? High Step? Drop Knee? Talk in here.
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caribe
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Re: Decking at the Lode...

Post by caribe » Tue May 29, 2012 8:26 am

jkpugel wrote:Time is the best way to weed out the things that aren't the safest or most reliable so for now I'll be sticking with my trusty Gri Gri and who knows, maybe one day we'll all be using Figure 8's, though I doubt it...
Sounds like you actually missed my point. check out the clickup it is safer. Sounds like the belayer may have been minding the rope, but was surprised when it zinged through the device unimpeded. After that, serpentine dynamic action by the rope made catching the rope improbable within the next second it would take to catch the fall. I guess if you expect the device to block and it doesn't . . .
Last edited by caribe on Tue May 29, 2012 9:58 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Decking at the Lode...

Post by krampus » Tue May 29, 2012 9:24 am

Wow, I can't tell what the rope is doing inside the device, but it looks like the rope would be hard to break even with the break hand engaged, especially if you were not ready for it.
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Re: Decking at the Lode...

Post by toad857 » Tue May 29, 2012 9:51 am

caribe wrote:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6jlUlVyt6h0
Sorry but that thing is a death device. Get rid of it.
I am not going to let anyone belay me with this, ever....
Seems like a pretty big flaw to me. It's like they didn't even test it.

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Re: Decking at the Lode...

Post by caribe » Tue May 29, 2012 9:54 am

krampus wrote:. . . it looks like the rope would be hard to break even with the break hand engaged, especially if you were not ready for it.
Exactly what I thought. :shock:

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Re: Decking at the Lode...

Post by krampus » Tue May 29, 2012 10:02 am

caribe wrote:
krampus wrote:. . . it looks like the rope would be hard to break even with the break hand engaged, especially if you were not ready for it.
Exactly what I thought. :shock:
That's because your amazing :mrgreen:
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Re: Decking at the Lode...

Post by Spikeddem » Tue May 29, 2012 10:06 am

krampus wrote:Wow, I can't tell what the rope is doing inside the device, but it looks like the rope would be hard to break even with the break hand engaged, especially if you were not ready for it.
Probably good if our ropes aren't breaking. :wink: Apparently, belaying is already hard enough.

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Re: Decking at the Lode...

Post by Meadows » Tue May 29, 2012 11:26 am

That video, Caribe, is completely irrelevant to the situation AND what the video doesn't show you is that there are many biners on the market with a perfect diameter for the SUM. However, Faders did remove the SUM from the market to fix this issue.

I have loved the SUM for it's dual safety system - not only does it provide two camming points, but it allows users to feed slack without removing the brake hand from the rope. I felt like I had a grigri and an ATC in one device. And it has worked time and time again for me as a belayer and a climber, as it has for many others. I'm not discounting the situation, but I hope to get questions answered (from the belayer himself) to understand more before I toss my device.

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Re: Decking at the Lode...

Post by Spikeddem » Tue May 29, 2012 11:36 am

Meadows wrote:it allows users to feed slack without removing the brake hand from the rope. I felt like I had a grigri and an ATC in one device
There's no need to remove the brake hand from the rope even when yarding out armfuls of slack. People who still do that are just stuck in an old habit.

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Re: Decking at the Lode...

Post by dustonian » Tue May 29, 2012 11:42 am

http://www.outdoorsafetyinstitute.com/i ... ry_notice/

Regardless, all devices are brake-assisting, and no manufacturers recommend brake-hand-off "belaying." The brake hand must always stay on the rope.

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Re: Decking at the Lode...

Post by dustonian » Tue May 29, 2012 11:46 am

Meadows wrote:However, Faders did remove the SUM from the market to fix this issue.
thank god.

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Re: Decking at the Lode...

Post by Clevis Hitch » Tue May 29, 2012 12:06 pm

Bullshit... The belayer should step in front of a truck for decking the leader. He let go with his brake hand. It takes like two seconds to fall from 70 feet. In those two seconds he couldn't regain control of the belay. Its obvious that the whole climbing world needs to go into stand-down and do some re-training on how to properly conduct a belay.

1) never ever under any circumstances take your brake hand off. You can swap out but never remove a hand from the brake side.
2) when in doubt refer to rule #1
3) if by chance you violate rule #1 and #2, make an appointment with your doctor to have yourself sterilized so as to remove the contaminant from the gene pool.
4) If you don't have a doctor or cannot afford one, feel free to step in front of a truck.
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Re: Decking at the Lode...

Post by caribe » Tue May 29, 2012 1:00 pm

Meadows wrote:That video, Caribe, is completely irrelevant to the situation AND what the video doesn't show you is that there are many biners on the market with a perfect diameter for the SUM. However, Faders did remove the SUM from the market to fix this issue.
Cognitive dissonance and internal inconsistency.
Last edited by caribe on Tue May 29, 2012 6:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Decking at the Lode...

Post by Meadows » Tue May 29, 2012 1:17 pm

dustonian wrote:
Meadows wrote:However, Faders did remove the SUM from the market to fix this issue.
thank god.
They are coming back, I believe, with the capability to use any biner.

P.S. There was no safety recall for this - just a warning to make sure you had a suitable biner. I've had my grigri get stuck on a fat biner as well.

Still, this was not the issue with the failure to cam (according to the post Hugh made on FB).
Last edited by Meadows on Tue May 29, 2012 1:46 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: Decking at the Lode...

Post by Meadows » Tue May 29, 2012 1:22 pm

dustonian wrote: Regardless, all devices are brake-assisting, and no manufacturers recommend brake-hand-off "belaying." The brake hand must always stay on the rope.
I do recall posting something on here from Petzl about the momentary release of the brake hand (it even had pictures) to assist in giving slack (gently holding the cam). I do recognize that they advocate a new method, but it didn't work for me (mostly I was too impatient to learn that new procedure).
Last edited by Meadows on Tue May 29, 2012 1:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Decking at the Lode...

Post by Shamis » Tue May 29, 2012 1:46 pm

Pretty sure the video caribe posted is the only known failure case for the SUM. And my guess is that even with the brake hand on you would fail in that mode because there is almost zero friction.

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