Sandbag or Fluff:

Gaston? High Step? Drop Knee? Talk in here.
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Re: Sandbag or Fluff:

Post by 512OW » Mon Mar 25, 2013 1:17 pm

One-Fall wrote:I always wonder when a climb feels hard for me at a given grade, is it a sandbag or is it just pointing out more deficits in my technique.

Yep. I can't recall very many sandbags at the Red, of any grade or type. Actually, I'm not sure I can recall any. Maybe "The Specimen", but only barely if at all. There are far more soft, ego padding routes, particularly if Muir Valley is included.
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Re: Sandbag or Fluff:

Post by dustonian » Mon Mar 25, 2013 1:17 pm

climb2core wrote:...new climbs coming out in the hard 11 range are more likely that they should fall in the easy 12 range. Sandbagging seems to be hitting new levels...
Your presumptuous tone and attempt to call out individual developers tends to knot panties into a nice sloppy double-bowline.

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Re: Sandbag or Fluff:

Post by dustonian » Mon Mar 25, 2013 1:18 pm

512OW wrote:There are far more soft, ego padding routes...
Yep.... and now some people think more accurately graded routes are somehow "sandbagged." Perhaps you are looking at it backwards folks?

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Re: Sandbag or Fluff:

Post by Brentucky » Mon Mar 25, 2013 1:20 pm

Uh-oh, i see some of my route comments may have aided in starting something. I only try to do honest relative grading, and we all know grades can be personal anyway (height, finger size, strengths, etc.). When i comment on a route it is usually because it stood out to me in some big way compared to others. It may be that i found it to be really awesome or it may be that i thought the grade was drastically off and i'm trying to set the 5.13 climbers who are smacking grades on 5.11's straight. That way the 5.11 climbers can get smacked around on it if they choose or they can go climb real 5.11's. That's usually about it. Like a lot of people, i just about always think i am right, and that is why ray's consensus voting and route comments on this website totally rocks!
efil lanrete... i enjoy the sound, but in truth i find this seductively backward idea to be quite frightening

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Re: Sandbag or Fluff:

Post by Brentucky » Mon Mar 25, 2013 1:25 pm

der uber wrote:

The one that has the most votes, scarlet scorchdropper, has the same consensus grade as the proposed grade. The rest of the climbs only have a few votes each. Do you really believe there is intentional sandbagging going on?
Did you notice that the weakest person so far to spray has sent multiple 12c's in the red? Maybe the strong egos of 5.13 climbers not wanting to upgrade weeny 5.11's (and honestly not knowing the difference) keeps them "down-voting." Just sayin...
efil lanrete... i enjoy the sound, but in truth i find this seductively backward idea to be quite frightening

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Re: Sandbag or Fluff:

Post by climb2core » Mon Mar 25, 2013 1:27 pm

dustonian wrote:
climb2core wrote:...new climbs coming out in the hard 11 range are more likely that they should fall in the easy 12 range. Sandbagging seems to be hitting new levels...
Your presumptuous tone and attempt to call out individual developers tends to knot panties into a nice sloppy double-bowline.
First you edit my words to remove qualification:
climb2core wrote:Seems like a lot of the new climbs coming out in the hard 11 range are more likely that they should fall in the easy 12 range. Sandbagging seems to be hitting new levels... but then again I can understand why:

http://www.redriverclimbing.com/RRCGuid ... te&id=2473
Presmptuous?

pre·sump·tu·ous
/priˈzəmpCH(o͞o)əs/
Adjective
(of a person or their behavior) Failing to observe the limits of what is permitted or appropriate.

Is it really inappropriate to talk about grades? Isn't that what we do on here? C'mon. Get real. It looks like this is turning out to be the best useless thread in a while.

Lastly Der Uber asked me to give examples.
Last edited by climb2core on Mon Mar 25, 2013 1:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Sandbag or Fluff:

Post by dustonian » Mon Mar 25, 2013 1:30 pm

You speaking Canadian or something?

pre·sump·tu·ous
adjective
1. full of, characterized by, or showing presumption or readiness to presume in conduct or thought.

Meaning that you initiated this thread under the presumption that the new routes were sandbagged rather than considering the alternative explanations that other routes are soft or that your technique might be deficient in some particular area(s). However, I do agree that it is a good useless thread!

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Re: Sandbag or Fluff:

Post by climb2core » Mon Mar 25, 2013 1:37 pm

I think it is presumptuous of you to assume that I believe anything I am writing. Btw, can you really use the root word of a word to define a word?
























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Re: Sandbag or Fluff:

Post by Andrew » Mon Mar 25, 2013 1:41 pm

climb2core wrote:To Wheatley's defense, he has no understanding of grading as his mutant arms by pass cruxes that he never knew existed.
I can't tell you how many times I have said this to people. I am way to tall to be grading things. The problem with being tall is that some stuff is way harder for me and some stuff is way easier. So getting the grade accurate is difficult.

I will also say that I have a tendency to bolt routes with non-typical RRG style. I tend to be good at figuring out funky beta to make moves easier. Its not my fault yall cant figure out how to climb. I also usually have a few people climb the route before I grade it and I will take the consensus grade.

As far as "here comes palin" is concerned the FA was done by trending left at the "crux". The route flows very well that way and is not outside the realm of off route and a few repeaters of the roue agreed that this was the logical approach to the climb. It also keeps the route more consistent. We can start upgrading everything if people want to take the hard way up routes. I surely can make Mr. Bungle 5.13 with the right beta.

Shadow is right, yall complain about FREE new routes. Go bolt your own if you don't like the grade. I promise that I try to grade routes accurately while adhering to the "solid for the grade" philosophy. Too many gimmies at the RRG.
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Re: Sandbag or Fluff:

Post by whoneedsfeet » Mon Mar 25, 2013 1:45 pm

+1 Andrew

I love full value climbs. I want to work to send those 11's
Skipping cruxes is a way of life.

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Re: Sandbag or Fluff:

Post by dustonian » Mon Mar 25, 2013 1:46 pm

Andrew wrote: Shadow is right, yall complain about FREE new routes. Go bolt your own if you don't like the grade. I promise that I try to grade routes accurately while adhering to the "solid for the grade" philosophy. Too many gimmies at the RRG.
+1

Bitchy climbers make a great excuse not to screw with all that brushing anymore on new lines! ;)

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Re: Sandbag or Fluff:

Post by climb2core » Mon Mar 25, 2013 1:57 pm

I should have just picked Pigsteaks lines as he has kicked the RRC habit.

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Re: Sandbag or Fluff:

Post by Andrew » Mon Mar 25, 2013 2:01 pm

climb2core wrote:I should have just picked Pigsteaks lines as he has kicked the RRC habit.
Wouldn't matter, its not like there are a bunch of people bolting, we all know who you are complaining about.
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Re: Sandbag or Fluff:

Post by One-Fall » Mon Mar 25, 2013 2:01 pm

Andrew wrote:
I can't tell you how many times I have said this to people. I am way to tall to be grading things. The problem with being tall is that some stuff is way harder for me and some stuff is way easier. So getting the grade accurate is hard.
But I bet your grades are spot on for people of your specific physical profile.
Can't we all just get along?

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Re: Sandbag or Fluff:

Post by climb2core » Mon Mar 25, 2013 2:21 pm

Andrew wrote:
climb2core wrote:I should have just picked Pigsteaks lines as he has kicked the RRC habit.
Wouldn't matter, its not like there are a bunch of people bolting, we all know who you are complaining about.
I wasn't complaining. I haven't made a comment yet about a route being sand bagged. I was merely pointing out a trend I had noticed with comments in the online guidebook. And why you ladies are being so sensitive about a grade debate on RRC.com, I have no idea.

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