Don't toprope or lower from anchors!!!

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andy_lemon
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Don't toprope or lower from anchors!!!

Post by andy_lemon » Sun Jan 23, 2005 5:21 am

Well, I know a lot of you lazy bastards are set in your ways of doing things... your way... because you know best. And why the hell should you listen to some 22 year old that is telling you lowering off of anchors is unethical. Fine, don't listen to me... then listen to the people who BUILD the hardware your toproping and lowering off of. Quote from the makers of Fixe:
Fixe Hardware wrote:The use of top anchors for top roping should be questioned. At many sport climbing areas the top anchors are used repeatedly for toproping. Visible wear can be seen and climbers still top rope directly from the top anchors. This is a Lazy Practice that should be stopped! It takes only moments for the leader to set up the top rope using quickdraws. This saves the anchors, saves time and money and it could even save someone's life! As the last climber, take the time to rappel verses being lowered down, rappelling will help save the anchors. Please help by setting an example.
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Post by haas » Sun Jan 23, 2005 12:00 pm

that's what I'm talkin' 'bout

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Toad
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Post by Toad » Sun Jan 23, 2005 4:33 pm

How about this...

If you are willing to replace worn hardware with high quality materials, then feel free to lower off the anchors. Hell, lower off with a diamond encrusted steel cable.

If you are unwilling to share in the cost of equipping routes, then you probably shouldn't be mooching off the investment of the person that put the anchors there in the first place. So, rap off and go find a place to contribute to a bolting fund then convince yourself that you don't have to give because you are a thoughtful climber and you ALWAYS rap off the anchors - no matter how steep the route.

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Post by pigsteak » Sun Jan 23, 2005 9:15 pm

well said toad....yo lemon, better not find you TR'ing at SoIll :twisted:
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Post by Saxman » Mon Jan 24, 2005 11:00 am

You all are too damn lazy. Save the anchors and walk off or downclimb all your routes.
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Post by Meadows » Mon Jan 24, 2005 11:05 am

This argument is so last week.

Toad wrote:
If you are unwilling to share in the cost of equipping routes, then you probably shouldn't be mooching off the investment of the person that put the anchors there in the first place.
I wonder how many of those people lower off.
Toad wrote:
So, rap off and go find a place to contribute to a bolting fund then convince yourself that you don't have to give because you are a thoughtful climber and you ALWAYS rap off the anchors - no matter how steep the route.
Great idea, but I'm curious if you rap off those steep routes or even get on them? Still, it's a very good idea to contribute.

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Post by J-Rock » Mon Jan 24, 2005 11:14 am

Hey Meadows, thank you for helping to provide some hangers last year. That was really cool and a great birthday present. Next time you should show up and do the FA. 8)
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Post by Meadows » Mon Jan 24, 2005 11:24 am

:lol: I'll donate more so maybe there is another opportunity and I don't misunderstand the communication. :? :lol:

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Post by rhunt » Mon Jan 24, 2005 1:36 pm

that's nice, I guess the guys at FIXE don't climb steep routes at the Red very often. I can't wait to watch all the rap cleaning off these routes next spring...that'll be enternaining

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Post by meetVA » Mon Jan 24, 2005 3:24 pm

Okay, Twinkie I see as being a nightmare. Would you consider The Return of Chris Snider a nightmare too?

I guess I'm thinking that as long as you have someone on the other end of the rappel, it could work similarlly to lowering for cleaning. Granted, I don't have a lot of practice with it but in my mind it could work.
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Post by Wes » Mon Jan 24, 2005 3:27 pm

meetVA wrote:Okay, Twinkie I see as being a nightmare. Would you consider The Return of Chris Snider a nightmare too?

I guess I'm thinking that as long as you have someone on the other end of the rappel, it could work similarlly to lowering for cleaning. Granted, I don't have a lot of practice with it but in my mind it could work.
Rocs may overhang more then twinkie, since it is way longer. That setup wouldn't work very well, or even at all. It really is almost impossable to clean a really steep route on Rap. Even some trad routes as well. Like inhibator or windy corner.

Wes

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Post by meetVA » Mon Jan 24, 2005 3:36 pm

I wasn't talking about the ground person holding the cleaner off but more of holding the line running up the wall locked so they could pull in on it. It could cause the ATC to lock off itself, fo-sho.
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Post by Wes » Mon Jan 24, 2005 3:39 pm

To expand on why that wouldn't work, here is what would happen:

Clean the anchor, and drop enough slack so that both ends are down, with one end still running through the draws/gear.

Someone has to hold the draw end of the rope, and you start rapping. As you are lowering, you are getting farther and farther from the wall. Once even with the pro, you need to pull yourself in on the draw side or the rope. But, don't let go of the brake hand while doing that. (Maybe you would need another person to give you a firemans on the free hanging side?). Once you have managed to pull yourself into the pro, try to unclip the rope and pull the piece with one hand. Once you get the first one out, it will only get harder as you go down, because you will be farther and farther out from the wall. Even on stuff that is only kinda steep (like pulling pockets), or that traverses (to defy), you will find it a real pain in the ass to clean on the way down.

Now, you could just tr the route again and then clean and rap if you all are so worried about the anchor gear. For me, it is worth it to just buy $20.00 or so worth of quick links every year (or just use the booty ones that people leave on routes).

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Post by Guest » Mon Jan 24, 2005 3:49 pm

I don't think anyone really advocates cleaning steep routes on rappell. It's simply not safe. I have done it a few times on moderately overhanging stuff and it's not too bad, but unless you have a back-up (your own or a fireman's), it's unwise. On the really steep stuff, no way. Just to be clear, I'm talking about cleaning the draws off of a route, not just cleaning the anchors. I know most people reading this understand that, but you never know with some people...

If you are the last person up, though, and you have cleaned the draws on your way up, there is no good reason not to rap off after you clean the anchors. This is true on any route.

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Post by Wes » Mon Jan 24, 2005 3:52 pm

Sandy wrote:If you are the last person up, though, and you have cleaned the draws on your way up, there is no good reason not to rap off after you clean the anchors. This is true on any route.
I still lower most of the time, unless the rope runs funky. Call me lazy.

Wes

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